The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[lewton]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	And why would you want to wish job losses on people, many of who are on these boards??? Your hatred of the EU is such that you'd like to see people financial well being just so you can have a bit of satisfaction... A rather sad little individual in my mind.

I am just curious to see how Switzerland will do without all the advantages of the Single Market that it's been enjoying.

This forum is full of people wishing bad on the EU and expressing their hope to see it destroyed (from Marine Lepen's potential win in the French election to Poland's and Hungary's anti-Brussels activism). The same people have been expressing the view that Switzerland is doing so well despite the EU, in my opinion it's thanks to the EU. So I'd like to see how Switzerland will do outside the Single Market.
It's just my curiosity.

[marton]

Unusual for the Express

Brexit warning: UK risks 'CATASTROPHIC ERROR' if May rushes into trade deal with Trump

Source

Basic theme seems to be May will rush into a quick trade deal for the glory but will be screwed by Trump and so impact the terms of subsequent trade deals.

	Quote:	marton
	"The Windrush scandal is a recent event" The Windrush generation came to the UK after World War II and under the 1948 Nationality Act were automatically entitled to UK citizenship. The scandal is and was that the UK Govt. failed to ensure on their arrival that these people were given the correct documents to prove their entitlement. The Free Movement of People (FMOP) business kicked in due to the Treaty of Maastricht in 1992 so it is too much of a stretch to try to link it to the current scandal. As you say many more people immigrate to the UK from non EU countries so claiming they have a problem due to FMOP is flying in the face of facts. In fact there was a big increase in non-EU immigrants during the twenty years following Maastricht, currently the number of non-EU immigrants per year is more than double the 1992 level. Here is another graph Attachment 133016

Your graph pretty much shows in a nutshell the problem with immigration. If the EU had stayed the Gentleman's Club it was pre-expansion in 2004 then I'm pretty certain that Brexit wouldn't have happened.

	Quote:	Jim2007
	No it absolutely is not. It is exactly the consequences of a single market - the very definition involves the free movement of all elements of production and that includes labour. There is no difference between the EU single market and that operate in the UK itself or any other member state. I can't see why people in the UK should think that the EU single market must operate under a different set of rules to the UK market or the market in any other member state for that matter. If we were to apply your logic to the UK market then there is no reason why labour from say Scotland should be able to move freely to Northern Ireland, or from Wales to England and so on in preference to labour from say Jamaica, Pakistan or where ever. And yet people seem to thing that is fine, but when they come to the EU single market it is not. That is the absurd part - expecting two single markets to operate under different rules. The bottom line is that you are either in a single market with all that requires or you are not. You cannot be in a single market and then exclude one of the elements of production, that is not how it works. And none of the other players are going to agree to let you do so.

And yet it was all working so well as the Common Market pre-Maastricht...

I don't think the UK people think that the EU single market should operate under a different set of rules, I think they're more miffed that they were never consulted about entering into a single market in the first place.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	And yet it was all working so well as the Common Market pre-Maastricht...

And... the members wanted something else and moved on....

	Quote:	Loz1983
	I don't think the UK people think that the EU single market should operate under a different set of rules, I think they're more miffed that they were never consulted about entering into a single market in the first place.

They have a sovereign parliament, so there is not need to consult them. That is how their democracy works. It is entirely an internal matter for the UK when it comes to making such decision. If they are unhappy, then they need to change it.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	lewton
	The same people have been expressing the view that Switzerland is doing so well despite the EU, in my opinion it's thanks to the EU. So I'd like to see how Switzerland will do outside the Single Market. It's just my curiosity.

What I was always told by Swiss friends, particularly around the time of the Brexit referendum, was that Switzerland endured a 10yr recession, then voted to join the single market.

Last week was the first time any of those friends has begun to query if it is the right course for Switzerland, because the company he works for are having issues with cross border trading EU regulations.

Personally, as with anything in life, I've always seen EU membership as having pros and cons, with the pros vastly outweighing the cons. Also, most of the time when cons have been raised, they could usually be traced back to local or national government decisions, yet the EU was used as a scapegoat for actions far closer to home. It's like the old question (which I most likely shouldn't say to a Greek ), 'What did the Romans ever do for us?'

	Quote:	Jim2007
	And... the members wanted something else and moved on....

“The members wanted”. Go and read up on the ratification of Maastricht. It’s always what the members want rather than what the people want.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	What I was always told by Swiss friends, particularly around the time of the Brexit referendum, was that Switzerland endured a 10yr recession, then voted to join the single market.

Switzerland had been doing fine before, not joining EEA in 1992 meant "no change" so should have had insignificant effect on the economy (at least for a few years).

Switzerland suffered a housing price crash in the nineties, with longer duration (from about 1992 to 2000) but similar cumulative effect as the housing price crash in the US ten years ago - close to 50% drop (after inflation) in rental house values. It was triggered and unnecessarily prolonged the Swiss National Bank's monetary policy. You simply don't see the economy thrive with that kind of housing market.

[pdofr]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Switzerland suffered a housing price crash in the nineties, with longer duration (from about 1992 to 2000) but similar cumulative effect as the housing price crash in the US ten years ago - close to 50% drop (after inflation) in rental house values. It was triggered and unnecessarily prolonged the Swiss National Bank's monetary policy. You simply don't see the economy thrive with that kind of housing market.

Having lived through the UK recessions in the early 80s and first half of the 90s I always saw it as monetary policies adversely affecting businesses first, with the poor housing market a by product of that.

The poor housing market certainly had a bad effect on the economy as for homeowners it made it relocation for work difficult and in many cases economically impossible for those with the skills to get jobs elsewhere.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:
	Peers defeat Government for tenth time on EU Withdrawal Bill over N Ireland

https://news.sky.com/story/peers-def...eland-11356208

Is the Irish Border question Brexit's Achilles Heel or a nail in it's coffin?

[marton]

Britain will be unable to leave the customs union before 2023, ministers have been told - for technical reasons!

Source

Ongoing shambles.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	amogles
	However, the question is, is the bailout really helping Greece long term? I think not.

And what exactly was the alternative??? And no the lets print Drachma and everything will be fine is not a solution, if for no other reason than they are unable to earn foreign currency to pay for things as basic as medical supplies!!!

Without the bailout the situation in Greece would be far worse, but the solution, the need to make massive changes to the economy and the political structure would be exactly the same.

It comes down to a question of just how much misery you want to see visited on the Greek people.

[Jim2007]

On a lighter note:

	Quote:
	British teenagers are to be given the chance to bid farewell to Europe with free Interrail passes for up to 30 days this summer. The free tickets, worth up to £400 each, will be offered to any EU citizens who turn 18 before July as part of a pilot DiscoverEU scheme funded by the EU.

Source

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	On a lighter note: Source

What a complete waste of taxpayers money.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	What a complete waste of taxpayers money.

Ditto.

I can imagine the joy with which this news was greeted by the middle aged plasterers, nurses and bank clerks of Europe.

[pdofr]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	On a lighter note: Source

Having done Interrail myself in student days, a great idea.

http://www.youdiscover.eu

Manfred Weber, from the link: " I also learned to appreciate the little quirks that made them British, Italian, Spanish…"

The "little quirks"?

And they wonder why people voted for Brexit. The Euro-Federalists have no idea whatsoever. None.

[pdofr]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	What a complete waste of taxpayers money.

Misery guts.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	The "little quirks"?

Why is that so offensive to you?

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Why is that so offensive to you?

Because national identity and culture are quite a bit more important to most people than Mr Weber's patronising little phrase implies.