The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	What a complete waste of taxpayers money.

On the contrary, it is an excellent way to encourage young people to get to know other parts of the EU and it’s peoples. And at a cost of say €500 a ticket it is money well spent.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	Manfred Weber, from the link: " I also learned to appreciate the little quirks that made them British, Italian, Spanish…" The "little quirks"? And they wonder why people voted for Brexit. The Euro-Federalists have no idea whatsoever. None.

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	Because national identity and culture are quite a bit more important to most people than Mr Weber's patronising little phrase implies.

Seriously! You make all that from a simple comment! And I would say quirks is the right word actually - it represents the difference between the common European outlook and what makes us French, German, English etc...

[Dougal's Breakfast]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	the common European outlook

There is no such thing, no matter how much the federalists wish for one.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	Because national identity and culture are quite a bit more important to most people than Mr Weber's patronising little phrase implies.

You know as well as I do that those can easily be found in a book, or at least, the indicators of those. The little quirks are harder to find and recognise without direct, personal experience. You've mentioned yourself in the past about the national obsession with Jass. I'd never have known about that without seeing it first hand. I know to be careful which coffee you order in the morning in the Tyrol, or you can easily find yourself over the drink drive limit before lunchtime, etc... Those are what I see as little quirks.

[marton]

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	Because national identity and culture are quite a bit more important to most people than Mr Weber's patronising little phrase implies.

National culture? Not sure that exists?
Put a Welshman, Scotsman and a man from Yorkshire side by side and see what they have for a common culture; aside from at least one of them wearing a skirt.
Or try that with one from each of the French, German and Italian parts of Switzerland.

[Dougal's Breakfast]

	Quote:	marton
	National culture? Not sure that exists?

At least 17 million British citizens would disagree with you.

[marton]

	Quote:	marton
	National culture? Not sure that exists?

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	At least 17 million British citizens would disagree with you.

The Scots and Irish agree with me

[Dougal's Breakfast]

	Quote:	marton
	The Scots and Irish agree with me

The Scots and Irish would agree with your doubt that national culture exists?

Sure, they would, Marton. Sure, they would.

[StirB]

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	The Scots and Irish would agree with your doubt that national culture exists? Sure, they would, Marton. Sure, they would.

The concept even in Scotland of "National Culture" is all a bit shortbread tin to be honest. The idea that an oil refinery worker off Aberdeen, a crofter in Uist and a sheet metal worker in Glesga have much in common is a bit silly. Heck, even in Glasgow, half the people support England/Germany and the other half support Ireland!

[marton]

	Quote:	StirB
	The concept even in Scotland of "National Culture" is all a bit shortbread tin to be honest. The idea that an oil refinery worker off Aberdeen, a crofter in Uist and a sheet metal worker in Glesga have much in common is a bit silly. Heck, even in Glasgow, half the people support England/Germany and the other half support Ireland!

And never mind Celtic vs Rangers!!

[Dougal's Breakfast]

	Quote:	StirB
	The concept even in Scotland of "National Culture" is all a bit shortbread tin to be honest. The idea that an oil refinery worker off Aberdeen, a crofter in Uist and a sheet metal worker in Glesga have much in common is a bit silly. Heck, even in Glasgow, half the people support England/Germany and the other half support Ireland!

Nevertheless, most Scots would identify, first and foremost, as Scots. I'd imagine that most of them, too, would be a bit insulted at their national identity being reduced to a "little quirk", as Mr Weber would describe it.

[marton]

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	Nevertheless, most Scots would identify, first and foremost, as Scots. I'd imagine that most of them, too, would be a bit insulted at their national identity being reduced to a "little quirk", as Mr Weber would describe it.

Now you are moving the goal posts from national culture to national identity

[Dougal's Breakfast]

	Quote:	marton
	Now you are moving the goal posts from national culture to national identity

Nice try, troll-boy.

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	Because national identity and culture are quite a bit more important to most people than Mr Weber's patronising little phrase implies.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	There is no such thing, no matter how much the federalists wish for one.

Of course there is, otherwise why would you want to live in Switzerland if our outlook on life is so different to yours then??? We need some examples?

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	I'd imagine that most of them, too, would be a bit insulted at their national identity being reduced to a "little quirk", as Mr Weber would describe it.

Except that is not what he actually said. The context was in terms of learning the differences that make us Italians, Germans, Irish and so on. Talk about making something out of nothing!

[Dougal's Breakfast]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Except that is not what he actually said. The context was in terms of learning the differences that make us Italians, Germans, Irish and so on. Talk about making something out of nothing!

There's a world of difference between "differences" and "little quirks".

[marton]

	Quote:	StirB
	The concept even in Scotland of "National Culture" is all a bit shortbread tin to be honest. The idea that an oil refinery worker off Aberdeen, a crofter in Uist and a sheet metal worker in Glesga have much in common is a bit silly. Heck, even in Glasgow, half the people support England/Germany and the other half support Ireland!

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	Nevertheless, most Scots would identify, first and foremost, as Scots. I'd imagine that most of them, too, would be a bit insulted at their national identity being reduced to a "little quirk", as Mr Weber would describe it.

Your reply to a post about "National Culture" was a totally irrelevant post about "National Identity" so I assume you now agree there is no such thing as "National Culture"?

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	There's a world of difference between "differences" and "little quirks".

For example? I'm still waiting for an example.....

[lewton]

Take it from the Swiss: the Brexit referendum wasn’t legitimate: https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/p...snt-legitimate

	Quote:
	Perhaps an example could be of help to illustrate this. Imagine 40 per cent of the population is vegetarian, 30 per cent loves pork but abhors beef, and the remaining 30 per cent love beef but can’t eat pork. A vote on the question “who wants to eat meat tonight?” should yield an easy 60 per cent majority, although both the pork and the beef options are rejected by 70 per cent of the population. The reason is simple: “meat” is not actually a real option. “Meat” means something different to different voters, and the 60 per cent majority in favor of “meat” is the sum of mutually incompatible beef and pork eaters. Furthermore, any skilled politician can evade criticism of the “meat” option by switching from one definition to the other as convenient. The hazier the option, the more the result will skew in its favor.

Basically it's trolling the Swiss for having had to succumb to Brussels and disrespect their own vote.

[kriss kross]

	Quote:	StirB
	The concept even in Scotland of "National Culture" is all a bit shortbread tin to be honest. The idea that an oil refinery worker off Aberdeen, a crofter in Uist and a sheet metal worker in Glesga have much in common is a bit silly.

It's all relative though.

Put them in a room with three Somalis and they may find they actually have quite a bit in common with each other.