The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Chuff]

	Quote:	lewton
	Take it from the Swiss: the Brexit referendum wasn’t legitimate: https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/p...snt-legitimate Basically it's trolling the Swiss for having had to succumb to Brussels and disrespect their own vote.

Sorry but that meat example is a rubbish comparison. You can apply the same shaky logic to any vote where people's opinions or ideology conflict. The fact is that a vote is the most fair option we have of making a common decision, no matter how divisive the topic is. You know... democracy and all that stuff.

[marton]

	Quote:
	The concept even in Scotland of "National Culture" is all a bit shortbread tin to be honest. The idea that an oil refinery worker off Aberdeen, a crofter in Uist and a sheet metal worker in Glesga have much in common is a bit silly.

	Quote:	kriss kross
	It's all relative though. Put them in a room with three Somalis and they may find they actually have quite a bit in common with each other.

True; agriculture is the most important sector of the Somalia economy so they would find quite a bit in common with a crofter

[kriss kross]

	Quote:	marton
	True; agriculture is the most important sector of the Somalia economy so they would find quite a bit in common with a crofter

Possibly; assuming that the Somali's speak English despite it not being a national language of their country.

As I said, it’s all relative

[baboon]

	Quote:
	...our brothers and sisters from the Commonwealth...

...as you seem to have rather a rose-tinted view of the commonwealth (and presumably therefore its origins):
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...-and-heres-why

[marton]

	Quote:	kriss kross
	Possibly; assuming that the Somali's speak English despite it not being a national language of their country. As I said, it’s all relative

But the Scots also don't speak English? e.g "a wee Dock and Doris"

Edit: Uist is one of the last remaining strongholds of the Gaelic language in Scotland.

	Quote:	baboon
	...as you seem to have rather a rose-tinted view of the commonwealth (and presumably therefore its origins): https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...-and-heres-why

"Presumably"

Don't patronise me, Baboon.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:
	"Presumably" Don't patronise me, Baboon.

Well we are still waiting to hear these great examples of how you are so different to the rest of Europe in terms of values, believes etc....

	Quote:
	Nevertheless, most Scots would identify, first and foremost, as Scots. I'd imagine that most of them, too, would be a bit insulted at their national identity being reduced to a "little quirk", as Mr Weber would describe it.

I think the Indy referendum probably disproves this. I can assure you the protestant half feel much more English / British and the Catholic half more Irish on the whole.

	Quote:	kriss kross
	It's all relative though. Put them in a room with three Somalis and they may find they actually have quite a bit in common with each other.

I think this is one of the great traits of Scotland, if we're trying to find some common culture. There is definitely a far greater sense of inclusion are welcoming foreigners (maybe bar the English ) in Scotland. I think a lot of people fall (either accidentally or deliberately) into the trap of believing the "Nationalist" part of SNP stands for your WW2 axis powers / BNP nationalism - far from it, the party actually stands for CIVIC nationalism which is an entirely different kettle of fish.

[kriss kross]

	Quote:
	I think this is one of the great traits of Scotland, if we're trying to find some common culture. There is definitely a far greater sense of inclusion are welcoming foreigners (maybe bar the English ) in Scotland. I think a lot of people fall (either accidentally or deliberately) into the trap of believing the "Nationalist" part of SNP stands for your WW2 axis powers / BNP nationalism - far from it, the party actually stands for CIVIC nationalism which is an entirely different kettle of fish.

All that civic nationalism means is that the country expects you to fit in with their national identity and culture regardless of background/ethnicity - it doesn't mean that said identity/culture doesn't exist.

[marton]

	Quote:	kriss kross
	All that civic nationalism means is that the country expects you to fit in with their national identity and culture regardless of background/ethnicity - it doesn't mean that said identity/culture doesn't exist.

Definition
Civic nationalism is a form of nationalism identified by political philosophers who believe in a non-xenophobic form of nationalism compatible with liberal values of freedom, tolerance, equality, and individual rights.

A "civic nation" isn't defined by its language or culture, but by its political institutions and liberal principles, which its citizens pledge to uphold.

[kriss kross]

	Quote:	marton
	Definition Civic nationalism is a form of nationalism identified by political philosophers who believe in a non-xenophobic form of nationalism compatible with liberal values of freedom, tolerance, equality, and individual rights. A "civic nation" isn't defined by its language or culture, but by its political institutions and liberal principles, which its citizens pledge to uphold.

For a nice change of pace you're actually completely correct marton.

I never realised that this is the actual idea of civic nationalism - what an utter joke of a concept.

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	kriss kross
	I never realised that this is the actual idea of civic nationalism - what an utter joke of a concept.

You're so right. It's exactly this kind of liberal thinking which has made Canada such a failure.

More xenophobes, that's what Canada needs.

[kriss kross]

	Quote:	JagWaugh
	You're so right. It's exactly this kind of liberal thinking which has made Canada such a failure. More xenophobes, that's what Canada needs.

There's nothing xenophobic about wanting your culture to remain dominant in your country. You're smarter than that.

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	kriss kross
	There's nothing xenophobic about wanting your culture to remain dominant in your country. You're smarter than that.

Ever been a Canadian?

I thought not.

[BaselLife]

Sorry Brexit has nothing to do with being ruled by another country. The UK is a sovereign country and would remain one inside the EU. This was one the many lies that leave pushed.

Still hope Beexit never happens but I am an optimist.

Al the best
Martin

[Jim2007]

	Quote:
	I think this is one of the great traits of Scotland, if we're trying to find some common culture. There is definitely a far greater sense of inclusion are welcoming foreigners (maybe bar the English ) in Scotland.

I would argue that that is a Celtic trait rather than being particularly Scottish!

[Aeneas]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	common European outlook

	Quote:
	There is no such thing, no matter how much the federalists wish for one.

Much like a common British outlook it seems...

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Well we are still waiting to hear these great examples of how you are so different to the rest of Europe in terms of values, believes etc....

One word. Cricket.

	Quote:	kriss kross
	There's nothing xenophobic about wanting your culture to remain dominant in your country. You're smarter than that.

As a Brit, can you tell me what my culture is? Is it that of the Beaker people, Romans, Huguenots, Saxons, etc etc. The truth is there is no British culture other than the evolution of ideas over time.

	Quote:	Jim2007
	I would argue that that is a Celtic trait rather than being particularly Scottish!

My apologies!