The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[amogles]

	Quote:	StirB
	Is this true, or a lie?

A question is by definition neither truth nor lie.

Master the basics of logics before playing with the matches.

[amogles]

	Quote:	StirB
	More piffle paffle and frippery. You are a scientific miracle, you may be the only substance known to man more slippery than PTFE. Answer the question...

So much for your professed intent to return to civil debate.

[StirB]

	Quote:	amogles
	A question is by definition neither truth nor lie. Master the basics of logics before playing with the matches.

	Quote:	amogles
	So much for your professed intent to return to civil debate.

I think we're done here. You can neither answer a simple question, nor admit to your previous lie. A career in politics beckons.

[amogles]

	Quote:	StirB
	I think we're done here. You can neither answer a simple question, nor admit to your previous lie. A career in politics beckons.

I think the point is reached that I must confess that you have dragged me down to your level of idiocy and beaten me with experience.

[StirB]

	Quote:	amogles
	I think the point is reached that I must confess that you have dragged me down to your level of idiocy and beaten me with experience.

I've obviously won, given your ongoing reliance on ad-homs, but nonetheless, I am a charitable man. Please tell me if his is true or false. Is the UK the only EU country allowed to vote (repeatedly, if you like) on leaving the EU, or was your assertion that "the UK is the only country that gets to vote on its membership" a lie?

	Quote:	amogles
	and why should the Uk be the only EU country that gets to vote about its membership every few years? Let's raise the game and have everybody vote. What are you afraid of?

[marton]

	Quote:	amogles
	You're moving goalposts and you know it. But don't worry. I'm not going to ask you to confess anything. Not in public. As for putting ego before fact. Even the thought of asking people to confess they were wrong rather than admit they were wrong ahows you are all about ego in this debate. Glass houses and throwing stones and all that. The EU does not stop any country from voting, but there are countries where constitutional restrictions prevent a vote. The EU does not have a problem with that. As for civil debate versus groaning, you'll find you are the one who led the race to the bottom.

"there are countries where constitutional restrictions prevent a vote" I only know of one country which does not allow referendums & that is Belgium?

[amogles]

	Quote:	marton
	"there are countries where constitutional restrictions prevent a vote" I only know of one country which does not allow referendums & that is Belgium?

Germany allows refendums on local and state level but on national level the topics that may be voted on are very restricted.

[Blueangel]

Eye back on the ball...

	Quote:
	Shock defeat rounds off series of Brexit reverses in House of Lords Peers back retaining key aspects of the EU's single market - in defiance of both the Government and Opposition frontbenches.

https://news.sky.com/story/shock-def...lords-11364159

[marton]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Eye back on the ball... https://news.sky.com/story/shock-def...lords-11364159

The people who proposed Brexit never had a clear concept for post Brexit UK so now it is a constant struggle between different factions to try to define it.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	marton
	The people who proposed Brexit never had a clear concept for post Brexit UK so now it is a constant struggle between different factions to try to define it.

Yup. It's also why lewton's analogy linked to in #11839 is spot on.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Yup. It's also why lewton's analogy linked to in #11839 is spot on.

I'd compare it more to 20 people going for dinner for a friend's birthday. Some have 1 course, some 2 and some 3. There's always someone who has salad because their on a diet, then a few propose that they all split the bill equally. Only the people who had 3 courses, including the most expensive steak on the menu, and drank double spirits all night are ever going to be happy with that scenario, but we've all been there and heard the muttered grumblings of whoever paid £40 for a salad and one glass of the house plonk.

[pdofr]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	I'd compare it more to 20 people going for dinner for a friend's birthday. Some have 1 course, some 2 and some 3. There's always someone who has salad because their on a diet, then a few propose that they all split the bill equally. Only the people who had 3 courses, including the most expensive steak on the menu, and drank double spirits all night are ever going to be happy with that scenario, but we've all been there and heard the muttered grumblings of whoever paid £40 for a salad and one glass of the house plonk.

There are times when paying £40 for a salad and one glass of the house plonk is the best solution. The price of a taxi* instead of the last train home because folks want to calculate who owes what quickly alters that situation.

* or on one famous occasion, the income lost when paid by the hour and clocked out for lunch. That was painful.

[Blueangel]

[Jim2007]

Labour backbenchers urge Jeremy Corbyn to back remaining in EEA

Between this and the HOL I'm wondering how this would this even work? To start with membership of the EEA is only available to EFTA or EU member states.

Do they expect the UK to apply to be readmitted to EFTA? Would we (CH plus the other current members) want to have a new dominant member, that presumably would start all the old games of looking for exceptions and engaging in other distributive behaviour with the EU???

And what happens if having voted to say in the EEA, their EFTA application is rejected? Do the expect that the EEA agreement will be renegotiated to allow them to have direct membership.

It seems to me that they are once again debating an option that is not even on the table!!!

[marton]

Leave.EU has been fined £70,000 and its chief officer has been referred to the Metropolitan police after the Electoral Commission found it had breached multiple counts of electoral law during the referendum to leave the European Union.

The commission said the “unlawful overspend” was at least £77,380 but “may well have been considerably higher”.

Bob Posner, the Electoral Commission’s director of political finance and regulation and legal counsel, suggested the fine would have been bigger but for a cap on the amount the commission can levy.

Source

A campaign marked by lies and incompetence on both sides.

[marton]

'Impossible position': Brexit is going nowhere fast

Opinion piece in CNN here

Some interesting points, for example

	Quote:
	Negotiators continue to shuttle between Brussels and London, but the same issues that were identified as stumbling blocks a year ago remain unresolved.

[marton]

Trump threatens to use US trade talks to force NHS to pay more for drugs

Source

Lucky we have the bargaining power of the EU behind us. Oh wait a minute!!

Anyway we can always rely on the "special relationship"

The way Brexit is progressing Trump will be out of office (even after a second term) before trade talks can start.

Trump probably heard about all the extra money the NHS will have due to Brexit

[marton]

According to the Telegraph Britain will tell Brussels it is prepared to stay tied to the customs union beyond 2021 as ministers remain deadlocked over a future deal with the EU, the Telegraph has learned.

The Prime Minister's Brexit war Cabinet earlier this week agreed on a new "backstop" as a last resort to avoid a hard Irish border, having rejected earlier proposals from the European Union.

Ministers signed off the plans on Tuesday despite objections from Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, and Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary.

Lol, they could not organise a pi##up in a brewery

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	marton
	According to the Telegrapg Britain will tell Brussels it is prepared to stay tied to the customs union beyond 2021 as ministers remain deadlocked over a future deal with the EU, the Telegraph has learned. The Prime Minister's Brexit war Cabinet earlier this week agreed on a new "backstop" as a last resort to avoid a hard Irish border, having rejected earlier proposals from the European Union. Ministers signed off the plans on Tuesday despite objections from Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, and Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary. Lol, they could not organise a pi##up in a brewery

But the EU wants this all done and dusted before the next parliament elections in May 2019, so what is in it for the EU at this stage?

[marton]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	But the EU wants this all done and dusted before the next parliament elections in May 2019, so what is in it for the EU at this stage?

Indeed

Same about the "max-fac" idea which would require a lot of work and changes for the EU with costs and risks but no obvious benefits for the EU! Also the idea of “trusted traders” (Authorised Economic Operators) seems to be absurd and a "pie in the sky" approach.