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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #12041  
Old 23.06.2018, 13:48
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Oh I am still waiting to hear one, just one positive point in leaving the EU that balances out any of the negative. Go on enlighten me.
Blue passports, less muslamics. Don't you read anything?
  #12042  
Old 23.06.2018, 13:54
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Oh I am still waiting to hear one, just one positive point in leaving the EU that balances out any of the negative. Go on enlighten me.
Government will be unshackled from the EU's interfering and will be able to vote and decide freely in the true sovereignty so desperately desired by the British publ... oh wait.

Well anyway, vacuum cleaners will be allowed with enough wattage to dim the surrounding street lights? Err... yay?
  #12043  
Old 23.06.2018, 15:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Decent turn out in London...

https://news.sky.com/story/live-thou...-deal-11414177
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  #12044  
Old 24.06.2018, 00:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

More than 17.4 million?
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  #12045  
Old 24.06.2018, 00:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Why are Brexiters so terrified of another plebiscite on leaving the EU? By now, everyone is pretty well-informed about the options. Another vote would either:
  • confirm the original result—great, that's clear, then, no more argument; or
  • reverse the original vote—but this time, with everybody fully informed and having had substantial time to formulate an educated opinion, so again, no more argument.

Why are Brexiters so afraid of implementing democracy? What's undemocratic about confirming a popular decision, especially when allegations of deceit and misrepresentation cloud the issue?
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  #12046  
Old 24.06.2018, 00:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Why are Brexiters so terrified of another plebiscite on leaving the EU? By now, everyone is pretty well-informed about the options. Another vote would either:
  • confirm the original result—great, that's clear, then, no more argument; or
  • reverse the original vote—but this time, with everybody fully informed and having had substantial time to formulate an educated opinion, so again, no more argument.

Why are Brexiters so afraid of implementing democracy? What's undemocratic about confirming a popular decision, especially when allegations of deceit and misrepresentation cloud the issue?
I’m not terrified, go for it. We’d have the same result again. Just look at the marchers today, have you ever seen a more white, middle class bunch of protesters? Completely out of touch with the rest of the nation.
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  #12047  
Old 24.06.2018, 00:47
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I’m not terrified, go for it. We’d have the same result again. Just look at the marchers today, have you ever seen a more white, middle class bunch of protesters? Completely out of touch with the rest of the nation.
Great, put the question to the people then! What a shame you or I can't make it happen. Only the completely out-of-touch, white, middle class bunch of politicians in Westminster can do that.
  #12048  
Old 24.06.2018, 09:28
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I’m not terrified, go for it. We’d have the same result again. Just look at the marchers today, have you ever seen a more white, middle class bunch of protesters? Completely out of touch with the rest of the nation.
So you can clearly identify the middle class from a few seconds of video?

And on the white thing...:

Quote:
Ethnicity was crucial in some places, with ethnic minority areas generally more likely to back Remain. However this varied, and in parts of London some Asian populations were more likely to support Leave......There was a broad pattern in several urban areas of deprived, predominantly white, housing estates towards the urban periphery voting Leave, while inner cities with high numbers of ethnic minorities and/or students voted Remain
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38762034

Last edited by baboon; 24.06.2018 at 09:51.
  #12049  
Old 24.06.2018, 10:57
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Straight from the horse's mouth....


https://news.sky.com/story/airbus-th...rexit-11412810
Two huge European companies issue threats within a day of each other. Good to see project fear is alive and well.
  #12050  
Old 24.06.2018, 11:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Two huge European companies issue threats within a day of each other. Good to see project fear is alive and well.
There is a major difference between risk analysis and threats.

Think about, there is no reason for huge companies to comment on Brexit other than concerns about their financial future.

Throwing out catch phrases like "project fear" fails to address the point.
In fact dumbing down economic arguments by using such catch phrases was one example of the many failures of the pre-referendum debate.
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  #12051  
Old 24.06.2018, 11:53
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the pre-referendum debate.
What debate? There was no debate before the referendum. Anyone who was actually interested in the matter had to do his own research because there was precious little intelligent output from the people in charge of either campaign.

It comes to something when a voter has to go and read the sodding Maastricht Treaty for himself to understand what's really going on. I'll never get that afternoon back.
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  #12052  
Old 24.06.2018, 12:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Currently, thie can only be read in full behind the Sunday Times pay wall...

Quote:
Bosses’ leaders in joint attack on government over Brexit shamblesLobby groups warn of exodus as time runs out for deal


Britain’s top business groups have united to make an unprecedented joint assault on the government’s handling of Brexit, warning that companies are queuing up to move investment out of the country.
Slow progress on the negotiations has already put thousands of jobs at risk and could cost the economy billions, they said in a letter to Theresa May, the European Council president Donald Tusk and Jean-Claude Juncker, head of the European Commission.
“The clock is ticking increasingly loudly and the business community is concerned that time is running out,” the business groups wrote in a protest timed to coincide with yesterday’s second anniversary of the vote to leave the EU. They want a more active role in forging Britain’s new trade deal with the bloc.
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  #12053  
Old 24.06.2018, 12:32
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I’m not terrified, go for it. We’d have the same result again. Just look at the marchers today, have you ever seen a more white, middle class bunch of protesters? Completely out of touch with the rest of the nation.
Seriously? You're the one who is out of touch. If you don't live here, how would you know?

The ignorance of politicians is frighteningly now in full throttle. Everyone sees it for what is: a complete cock-up. There is no point in a separation from the EU if there is no plan.. even a hint of a tiny-weeny one that can be worked on to move this thing forward? But no, nothing.
All businesses, not just Airbus, are talking now about their fears and their loss of faith in the government. To all: the young/ students, working class & middle class, pensioners, it is looking very bleak.

If there was another referendum, there would be a complete reverse. How do I know that? Because I live here.
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  #12054  
Old 24.06.2018, 12:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Two huge European companies issue threats within a day of each other. Good to see project fear is alive and well.
For the last year they have been quietly and patiently lobbying Number 10 for assurances on business continuity and have gotten nowhere. This statement is the culmination of all that frustration at the continued blustering and wishful thinking from government. As for Project fear, I think they answer that pretty well.

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“While Airbus understands that the political process must go on, as a responsible business we require immediate details on the pragmatic steps that should be taken to operate competitively.

“Without these, Airbus believes that the impacts on our UK operations could be significant. We have sought to highlight our concerns over the past 12 months, without success. Far from ”project fear”, this is a dawning reality for Airbus. Put simply, a no-deal scenario directly threatens Airbus’s future in the UK.”
You can scoff all you like, but I have already seen major Pharma investments in the UK shelved or diverted to countries like the Netherlands (the new seat of the European Medicines Agency following London).
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  #12055  
Old 24.06.2018, 12:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Not only are the UK negotiations with the EU lagging their negotiations with the rest of the world on important issues have yet to be initiated or even thought about.

Aviation, for example, the UK needs to negotiate new air services agreements with at least 70 other countries. How many have they concluded so far?

Zero.

Tick, tick, tick, ...

I honestly believe that HMG has no {expletive deleted} idea of what they are doing.
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  #12056  
Old 24.06.2018, 12:51
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I honestly believe that HMG has no {expletive deleted} idea of what they are doing.
I think they know exactly what they're doing.
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  #12057  
Old 24.06.2018, 14:24
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There is a major difference between risk analysis and threats.

Think about, there is no reason for huge companies to comment on Brexit other than concerns about their financial future.

Throwing out catch phrases like "project fear" fails to address the point.
In fact dumbing down economic arguments by using such catch phrases was one example of the many failures of the pre-referendum debate.
We heard all this before the referendum. "All business will leave if there is a vote for Brexit!". We'll there was a vote for Brexit and very few businesses have left. It was a fear campaign to get people to vote remain and it didn't work. It's no coincidence that both these announcements came within a day of the march in London.

And looking at Airbus, they're making aircraft wings, not flat pack furniture. Whilst I'm not saying they can not move abroad, the sheer amount of investment required, training, auditing etc. means that it'll be years before they do. Besides, they said if there's no deal they'll move abroad. By not planning for no deal, the incompetent Tory government have made certain that a deal will have to be struck, and will end up having to agree to pretty much what the EU offers them.

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Anyone who was actually interested in the matter had to do his own research because there was precious little intelligent output from the people in charge of either campaign.

It comes to something when a voter has to go and read the sodding Maastricht Treaty for himself to understand what's really going on. I'll never get that afternoon back.
Well and truly Swissified
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Old 24.06.2018, 14:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Aviation, for example, the UK needs to negotiate new air services agreements with at least 70 other countries. How many have they concluded so far?
Well it seems the US-UK agreement is under discussion, but is not very promising: U.S. Offers U.K. Worse ‘Open Skies’ Deal After Brexit
  #12059  
Old 24.06.2018, 15:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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We heard all this before the referendum. "All business will leave if there is a vote for Brexit!". We'll there was a vote for Brexit and very few businesses have left.
The problem with your wait and see BS is that it is too late to make the changes necessary, once the decision had been made and plans are in motion.

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It was a fear campaign to get people to vote remain and it didn't work. It's no coincidence that both these announcements came within a day of the march in London.
And now for your next BS.... CEO's do play politics, but the rules a different because unlike politicians they can be held accountable for their comments - auditors, stock exchange, shareholder etc...

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And looking at Airbus, they're making aircraft wings, not flat pack furniture. Whilst I'm not saying they can not move abroad, the sheer amount of investment required, training, auditing etc. means that it'll be years before they do.
That is a once off hit versus an ongoing cost of staying. Firms tend to prefer to take the one time hit.
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  #12060  
Old 24.06.2018, 15:29
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And now for your next BS.... CEO's do play politics, but the rules a different because unlike politicians they can be held accountable for their comments - auditors, stock exchange, shareholder etc...
“Politicians can’t be held accountable for their comments”

Who’s talking BS?
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