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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #12161  
Old 01.07.2018, 12:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Agree completely - there have been several referenda (Greece and Ireland) where people voted a certain way but were either invited to vote again or had their vote ignored.

The more socialist the country the more it seems inclined to believe that it knows better than its own citzenry the course forward (usually by acting against the interests of their citzens)

The above phenomenon is IMO exactly why the Europe is in so much trouble recently.
You mean people tolerating democracy and supporting diversity of opinions when it suits their agenda, only? Yep but it is not new. It is not scary, just dumb, that phenomenon has existed for ever.
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  #12162  
Old 01.07.2018, 12:48
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I love it when EUphiles reveal their true interests like that.

Why have darkies and muslins when you can have good, Christian white folks to work in your factories?

But, of course, it's the Brexit voters who are racist...
Scratch the surface of any social justice warrior and you'll find what they profess to hate lurking just beneath.
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  #12163  
Old 01.07.2018, 12:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Scratch the surface of any social justice warrior and you'll find what they profess to hate lurking just beneath.
I can't help but wonder if you guys have been victims of the EF's biggest "Woooosh" of all time on this one.
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  #12164  
Old 01.07.2018, 12:56
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I can't help but wonder if you guys have been victims of the EF's biggest "Woooosh" of all time on this one.
Not at all: I understand totally what Lewton was trying to say.

It's the subtext which interests me - one which underlies quite a lot of the discussion from the pro-EU side.

It doesn't take a PhD in political science to understand that the entire "European Union" project is racist at its core. It just helps to look at the story from the end of the 19th century, rather than start at the Treaty of Rome.
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  #12165  
Old 01.07.2018, 13:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You mean people tolerating democracy and supporting diversity of opinions when it suits their agenda, only? Yep but it is not new. It is not scary, just dumb, that phenomenon has existed for ever.
It is both dumb AND scary - countries have turned to socialism before - some posters advocate turning to socialism now - the Marxist thread was an eye opener - note all those countries who have been socialist in the recent past are now in political crisis.

The clear lessons - as demonstrated very clearly by the Visegrad states - you will note their economies and politics are doing very well recently - is that such thinking is self-destructive and can only be self destructive.
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  #12166  
Old 01.07.2018, 13:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It is both dumb AND scary - countries have turned to socialism before - some posters advocate turning to socialism now - the Marxist thread was an eye opener - note all those countries who have been socialist in the recent past are now in political crisis.

The clear lessons - as demonstrated very clearly by the Visegrad states - you will note their economies and politics are doing very well recently - is that such thinking is self-destructive and can only be self destructive.
You know that the deceitful Merkel has come back from the migrant quota meeting publicizing her success, saying V4 signed when it wasn't true?

Amazing.

Assuring "democracy" that only represents one allowed and only tolerated opinion. The EU has proven completely undemocratic, for the "grater good" that only allows one track. Overpowering muscle talk. Which, btw, manifests itself by large policies but also by individuals. Try to say that it is in fact "dumb" or "scary". The best is to not engage further with such aggressive bullies and not try to even debate when all they spout is aggression. V4 is heading out, me thinks.
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  #12167  
Old 01.07.2018, 13:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You know that the deceitful Merkel has come back from the migrant quota meeting publicizing her success, saying V4 signed when it wasn't true?
Yes I read about it this morning

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German Chancellor Angela Merkel has secured the consent of 16 European Union member states for the rapid return of migrants who first arrived in other countries, according to a document seen by German news outlets on Saturday.

The countries listed are Hungary, Poland, the Czech Republic, Belgium, Denmark, Estonia, France, Finland, Lithuania, Latvia, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Portugal and Sweden.

Austria, whose chancellor, Sebastian Kurz, is an immigration hardliner, was noticeably absent from the list.

Following reports of the deal, a spokesman for the Hungarian government denied that Budapest has agreed to a migrant repatriation system with Germany.

"No such deal has been reached," Zoltan Kovacs said.

Soon after, Czech Prime Minister Andrej Babis also denied there was a migrant deal with Berlin, as did a spokesman for the Polish Foreign Ministry.

"This alarming news is complete nonsense," he said. "Germany did not approach us, and in this moment I would not ratify such an agreement."
Again you have a prime minister behaving as a dictator - and no surprise her cheerleaders in the media and even on this forum will claim that they believe in Western values...

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Assuring "democracy" that only represents one allowed and only tolerated opinion. The EU has proven completely undemocratic,, for the "grater good" that only allows one track. Overpowering muscle talk. Which, btw, manifests itself by large policies but also by individuals. Try to say that it is in fact "dumb" or "scary". The best is to not engage further with such aggressive bullies and not try to even debate when all they spout is aggression. V4 is heading out, me thinks.
Of course V4 won't "head out" - because it is not in the interests of their people economically. They are doing exactly what they should - in putting as much pressure on Germany and France to realise their policies are suicide.
Merkel's "agreement" is completely unworkable - several North African countries who receive enormous transfers from the EU through "asylum seekers" have already rejected it. Eventually when German streets burn as the suburbs of Marseille and Paris do every night they will realise that she was the worst chancellor they have had since the Austrian guy with the funny moustache.
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  #12168  
Old 01.07.2018, 13:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It is both dumb AND scary - countries have turned to socialism before - some posters advocate turning to socialism now - the Marxist thread was an eye opener - note all those countries who have been socialist in the recent past are now in political crisis.

The clear lessons - as demonstrated very clearly by the Visegrad states - you will note their economies and politics are doing very well recently - is that such thinking is self-destructive and can only be self destructive.
Russia, China nor N.Korea are not in political crisis?
Can we get back to Brexit?
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  #12169  
Old 01.07.2018, 14:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Russia, China nor N.Korea are not in political crisis?
Can we get back to Brexit?
Can we not be inspired by it?

V4exit.
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  #12170  
Old 01.07.2018, 14:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It doesn't take a PhD in political science to understand that the entire "European Union" project is racist at its core. It just helps to look at the story from the end of the 19th century, rather than start at the Treaty of Rome.
Yap time to but you on ignore, when you come out with this kind of total crap - The EU at the end of the 19th century, what a bloody joke.
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  #12171  
Old 01.07.2018, 14:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I love it when EUphiles reveal their true interests like that.

Why have darkies and muslins when you can have good, Christian white folks to work in your factories?

But, of course, it's the Brexit voters who are racist...
1. Your sense of humour is calling, she got lost somewhere. I don't care about the colour of migrants, only the value (economic and human) that they bring. But Brexiteers do care, so I can make fun of them.

2. My true interests? Are you for real?
I didn't vote for Brexit, you did.
Excuse me for looking at how to make the best out of this situation.
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  #12172  
Old 01.07.2018, 14:42
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Yap time to but you on ignore, when you come out with this kind of total crap - The EU at the end of the 19th century, what a bloody joke.
Right, sure. It just sprang out of the earth fully formed in 1992.

As you were...
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  #12173  
Old 01.07.2018, 14:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Not at all: I understand totally what Lewton was trying to say.

It's the subtext which interests me - one which underlies quite a lot of the discussion from the pro-EU side.

It doesn't take a PhD in political science to understand that the entire "European Union" project is racist at its core.
I think the EU leaders are solely focused on economic growth of the chosen few. If race sells, they are on it, like they are right now. The true integration is not their priority at all. Hence the open door policy, it makes it practically impossible. It is the least socially minded project we have experienced.

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  #12174  
Old 01.07.2018, 15:17
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I suppose given the revelations about the money siphoning and huge overspend of the Leave campaign, "fraudulent" probably isn't as ridiculous a term as some of you on here are making out. That's before we even get into the headline lies the Leave campaign used.
This would not be the first or last democratic vote that was surrounded by propaganda and deception. Its part of modern politics whether we like it or not.
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Old 01.07.2018, 15:23
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Are the British people who voted for Brexit alt-right? Half of the electorate is "alt-right"?
Alt-right is nowhere near a force in the UK as it is in the US and some EU nations. The UK is still very binary and traditional in it's political thinking. You do get a few rabble rousers at times of peak political activity, but they quickly sink back into obscurity (or get themselves jailed) and things return to normal. Terms such as alt-right, SJW (give me strength ) and the likes, belong firmly in US politics and I can't relate to them in a British political context. They're alien terms to that environment.

As for the people who actually voted Leave, I reckon they were a cross section of society and political persuasions, with a considerable Leave campaign by the far left (former SWP types) and a significant anti-EU sentiment coming from some - but only some - sections of the Asian populace, predominently in South East areas such as Slough, which was the exact opposite of surrounding areas.

I still firmly believe that the referendum campaign was a hot headed cock-up from beginning to end, with standards of political behaviour lower than a snake's belly, and the likes of which I haven't seen in UK politics in my lifetime.

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Then one starts to allege the process is fraudulent that's something I take issue with.
There is a legal aspect to this, in that a large number of eligible voters within the EU didn't receive their postal ballots. The numbers range from a few thousand to up to 40,000 depending on who you believe, but it still happened that too many eligable voters were excluded from the process.

I've also heard of UK residents being denied their vote at the ballot box due to some administrative cock-ups, which I'd be inclined to disbelieve if it happened happened to my OH during the 2015 G.E. He went along with his ballot card and was refused a vote at the polling station. To cut a long story short, it turned out that the DWP had listed his nationality incorrectly.

Add to that, there is a current move to give the vote back to up to 700,000 expats who have lived outside of the UK for over 15yrs. This could significantly change the landscape if there was a future referendum.

And don't forget to take a pen next time because they're rubbing out the pencil votes
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  #12176  
Old 01.07.2018, 15:32
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Can we not be inspired by it?

V4exit.
Seems the V4 got more money from the EU than they paid in so EU looks like a good deal for them?
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  #12177  
Old 01.07.2018, 15:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Seems the V4 got more money from the EU than they paid in so EU looks like a good deal for them?
Attachment 133694
If money the only reason they went to the EU. They did not, that's why they don't agree with Merkel's plan to exchange human quota for money. Merkel keeps insisting on this "good deal" which keeps making V4 uncooperative. I wonder how it will all end up. Hope it goes helvetic/UK way.

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  #12178  
Old 01.07.2018, 15:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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This would not be the first or last democratic vote that was surrounded by propaganda and deception. Its part of modern politics whether we like it or not.
I'm sure that's the case, but if you can't call one camp overspending "fraudulent", I'm not sure what you would call it.
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  #12179  
Old 01.07.2018, 17:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

What doesn't inspire me with any faith at the moment are these little facts...

Half of the elected MPs have no input into how plans are proceding...

https://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-...f-the-parties/

Even the Brexiteers aren't happy with how things are going...

Quote:
The newspaper’s claim that Gove was so “livid” that he “physically ripped” the document in two has not been disputed.



Both customs systems being considered by the cabinet have been dismissed by the EU.


Details of a white paper setting out the UK’s plans for issues including trade and customs will be discussed by cabinet ministers on Friday at Chequers and tensions over the deep divisions on how to proceed threaten to boil over.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...perceived-snub

Contingency plans for all possible outcome scenarios are happening...

Quote:
Brexit: 'Significant planning' underway to guarantee medical supplies don't run out in event of no deal, says NHS chief

Assurance comes nine months after NHS England chief executive told MPs he had no orders to plan for no deal scenario
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/h...-a8425266.html


...and May honestly believes she can rectify all this with an 'away day' this Friday.



Quote:
UK's May orders ministerial 'away-day' to sort out squabbling ministers
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1J42VK


Fastest to run through the wheat field wins eh???


I don't believe for one moment that May & Co have a sodding clue what's going on, what their 'plan' is, what will be in the white paper, and what the outcome will be. It's all utterly pathetic.
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Old 01.07.2018, 17:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I don't believe for one moment that May & Co have a sodding clue what's going on, what their 'plan' is, what will be in the white paper, and what the outcome will be. It's all utterly pathetic.
It's all utterly deliberate.

Why did anyone expect any better from that shower of dissembling Establishment puppets?
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