The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Regain sovereignty Control immigration.

Even if they were two of the reasons, they are so vague they are virtually meaningless. Two buzzwords to appease the tabloid-gobbling gammons that couldn't be arsed thinking any further.

Nobody can actually quantify "sovereignty" in this context and nobody knows how to define "immigration". Some think it means ending the contracts of EU workers here and some think in means few Polish plumbers while others think it will single-handedly curtail illegal immigrants stealing benefits.

Smoke and mirrors.

	Quote:
	Even if they were two of the reasons, they are so vague they are virtually meaningless. Two buzzwords to appease the tabloid-gobbling gammons that couldn't be arsed thinking any further. Nobody can actually quantify "sovereignty" in this context and nobody knows how to define "immigration". Some think it means ending the contracts of EU workers here and some think in means few Polish plumbers while others think it will single-handedly curtail illegal immigrants stealing benefits. Smoke and mirrors.

Precisely - which of the following claimed immigrations benefits did you agree with and vote leave for?

-Fewer EU workers taking British jobs
-Stronger bond with commonwealth countries (i.e. more immigration from there instead of EU)
-Fewer muslims coming into the country
-Fewer trains of brown people coming to the UK (see Farage poster)
-Fewer refugees
-Fewer economic migrants

I'm sure I've missed a few, too.

All of these have been touted by Leavers as their biggest immigration bugbears (despite how tenuous some are regarding the EU). Surely not every leaver was in favour or against all of these, as if they were some homogenous policy?

[marton]

	Quote:
	Even if they were two of the reasons, they are so vague they are virtually meaningless. Two buzzwords to appease the tabloid-gobbling gammons that couldn't be arsed thinking any further. Nobody can actually quantify "sovereignty" in this context and nobody knows how to define "immigration". Some think it means ending the contracts of EU workers here and some think in means few Polish plumbers while others think it will single-handedly curtail illegal immigrants stealing benefits. Smoke and mirrors.

Exactly

And Loz himself has posted another view where he hopes it means something like the Swiss system where only skilled immigrants are allowed and let us not talk about the people who hope it means sending existing immigrants home

	Quote:
	Even if they were two of the reasons, they are so vague they are virtually meaningless. Two buzzwords to appease the tabloid-gobbling gammons that couldn't be arsed thinking any further. Nobody can actually quantify "sovereignty" in this context and nobody knows how to define "immigration". Some think it means ending the contracts of EU workers here and some think in means few Polish plumbers while others think it will single-handedly curtail illegal immigrants stealing benefits. Smoke and mirrors.

Again, more bollocks.

Sovereignty - Ability to strike own trade deals (i.e. out of single market/customs union), Freedom to make own laws (out of jurisdiction of ECJ)
Immigration - Out of FMOP.

Really very simple stuff, that those desperate to remain keep trying to cloud.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Again, more bollocks. Sovereignty - Ability to strike own trade deals (i.e. out of single market/customs union), Freedom to make own laws (out of jurisdiction of ECJ) Immigration - Out of FMOP. Really very simple stuff, that those desperate to remain keep trying to cloud.

The doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty (a concept of the UK’s Common Law tradition) is not affected by the supremacy of EU Law.
Large areas of UK domestic law remain subject to the exclusive jurisdiction of the UK courts and legislature.
Source

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Again, more bollocks. Sovereignty - Ability to strike own trade deals (i.e. out of single market/customs union), Freedom to make own laws (out of jurisdiction of ECJ) Immigration - Out of FMOP. Really very simple stuff, that those desperate to remain keep trying to cloud.

Simple stuff, yes. But it's how YOU understood it. The point in this current bit of the thread is that every voter had their own take on it.

Another Leaver might not have seen Sovereignty as you see it.

FMOP might have included current EU citizens here but no new ones, or new ones but qualified, or new ones but married with a Brit. The variables are endless.

Boris has gone now too. Guess it's another nail in the coffin for Brexit. Well, it's been fun...

Boris gone. Spineless git took time weighing up his options. No respect for him.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Boris gone. Spineless git took time weighing up his options. No respect for him.

He is something else.. hope he rots in the political shadows.

No one is going to want him on their team. Git is right.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Boris gone. Spineless git took time weighing up his options. No respect for him.

If you want proof that there was a lot of variance amongst Leave voters' opinions on immigration and sovereignty, look at the Tory cabinet at the moment. If everyone was dead certain on what they wanted, there wouldn't be this mutiny and they'd be able to agree on what Brexit should mean.

[bowlie]

When in trouble or in doubt, run in circles Scream and Shout!

If I was May I’d notify the Commission that she is withdrawing her notice and then call a snap election. Won’t do the Conservative party any good, but it would screw Boris.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Boris gone. Spineless git took time weighing up his options. No respect for him.

As London mayor he was responsible for a lot of good innovations.

As a Cabinet Minister I cannot think of any?

[bowlie]

I’ll repeat something I alluded to earlier.

If the U.K. had the guts and ability to lead the EU they could be making trade agreements backed by a lot more clout that just the British economy. And with their leadership everyone in the EU would benefit. Immigration problems, if there ever was one from the EU, would disappear.

Strong and Stable Lolz

Fox and Leadsom next to go.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Strong and Stable Lolz

Loz, I'd put far more faith in your little ones 'borrowing' daddy's credit card and booking a holiday that you'd actually enjoy, than this shower of reprobates delivering Brexit.

And what of principled, risk-taking Micheal Gove? Looking rather like the wanker he is now that he's already nailed his colours firmly to the mast of sinking HMS Theresa.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	And what of principled, risk-taking Micheal Gove? Looking rather like the wanker he is now that he's already nailed his colours firmly to the mast of sinking HMS Theresa.

Principled? You have a very short memory...

They're out to save their political skins.. knowing full well if the disingenuous cowards were in May's position they too would be under huge pressure to try to deliver a soft Brexit.

Nothing else is possible. Isn't it time a honest conversation was had with the British public about what the realities are?

	Quote:	Swisstree
	They're out to save their political skins.. knowing full well if the disingenuous cowards were in May's position they too would be under huge pressure to try to deliver a soft Brexit. Nothing else is possible. Isn't it time a honest conversation was had with the British public about what the realities are?

No. Because that would mean admitting the elaborate pants-on-fire journey they led the voter on which landed them here...

[bowlie]

From the Beeb:

	Quote:
	Mrs May told MPs that the plan agreed by the cabinet at Chequers was the basis of a "responsible and credible" offer to restart renegotiations with the EU.

Restart renegotiations is it? How about seriously starting negotiations.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Again, more bollocks. Sovereignty - Ability to strike own trade deals (i.e. out of single market/customs union),

That is an incredibly narrow view of sovereignty to put as your first point.

Also, how do you explain the apparent advantage of striking trade deals covering maybe 20% of UK exports (even if those can be even nearly as advantageous as those the EU could conclude) at the cost of an existing free trade deal covering 50%?