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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #12241  
Old 09.07.2018, 16:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Regain sovereignty
Control immigration.
Even if they were two of the reasons, they are so vague they are virtually meaningless. Two buzzwords to appease the tabloid-gobbling gammons that couldn't be arsed thinking any further.

Nobody can actually quantify "sovereignty" in this context and nobody knows how to define "immigration". Some think it means ending the contracts of EU workers here and some think in means few Polish plumbers while others think it will single-handedly curtail illegal immigrants stealing benefits.

Smoke and mirrors.
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  #12242  
Old 09.07.2018, 16:52
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Even if they were two of the reasons, they are so vague they are virtually meaningless. Two buzzwords to appease the tabloid-gobbling gammons that couldn't be arsed thinking any further.

Nobody can actually quantify "sovereignty" in this context and nobody knows how to define "immigration". Some think it means ending the contracts of EU workers here and some think in means few Polish plumbers while others think it will single-handedly curtail illegal immigrants stealing benefits.

Smoke and mirrors.
Precisely - which of the following claimed immigrations benefits did you agree with and vote leave for?

-Fewer EU workers taking British jobs
-Stronger bond with commonwealth countries (i.e. more immigration from there instead of EU)
-Fewer muslims coming into the country
-Fewer trains of brown people coming to the UK (see Farage poster)
-Fewer refugees
-Fewer economic migrants

I'm sure I've missed a few, too.

All of these have been touted by Leavers as their biggest immigration bugbears (despite how tenuous some are regarding the EU). Surely not every leaver was in favour or against all of these, as if they were some homogenous policy?
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  #12243  
Old 09.07.2018, 16:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Even if they were two of the reasons, they are so vague they are virtually meaningless. Two buzzwords to appease the tabloid-gobbling gammons that couldn't be arsed thinking any further.

Nobody can actually quantify "sovereignty" in this context and nobody knows how to define "immigration". Some think it means ending the contracts of EU workers here and some think in means few Polish plumbers while others think it will single-handedly curtail illegal immigrants stealing benefits.

Smoke and mirrors.
Exactly

And Loz himself has posted another view where he hopes it means something like the Swiss system where only skilled immigrants are allowed and let us not talk about the people who hope it means sending existing immigrants home
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  #12244  
Old 09.07.2018, 16:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Even if they were two of the reasons, they are so vague they are virtually meaningless. Two buzzwords to appease the tabloid-gobbling gammons that couldn't be arsed thinking any further.

Nobody can actually quantify "sovereignty" in this context and nobody knows how to define "immigration". Some think it means ending the contracts of EU workers here and some think in means few Polish plumbers while others think it will single-handedly curtail illegal immigrants stealing benefits.

Smoke and mirrors.
Again, more bollocks.

Sovereignty - Ability to strike own trade deals (i.e. out of single market/customs union), Freedom to make own laws (out of jurisdiction of ECJ)
Immigration - Out of FMOP.

Really very simple stuff, that those desperate to remain keep trying to cloud.
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  #12245  
Old 09.07.2018, 17:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Again, more bollocks.

Sovereignty - Ability to strike own trade deals (i.e. out of single market/customs union), Freedom to make own laws (out of jurisdiction of ECJ)
Immigration - Out of FMOP.

Really very simple stuff, that those desperate to remain keep trying to cloud.
The doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty (a concept of the UK’s Common Law tradition) is not affected by the supremacy of EU Law.
Large areas of UK domestic law remain subject to the exclusive jurisdiction of the UK courts and legislature.
Source
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  #12246  
Old 09.07.2018, 17:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Again, more bollocks.

Sovereignty - Ability to strike own trade deals (i.e. out of single market/customs union), Freedom to make own laws (out of jurisdiction of ECJ)
Immigration - Out of FMOP.

Really very simple stuff, that those desperate to remain keep trying to cloud.
Simple stuff, yes. But it's how YOU understood it. The point in this current bit of the thread is that every voter had their own take on it.

Another Leaver might not have seen Sovereignty as you see it.

FMOP might have included current EU citizens here but no new ones, or new ones but qualified, or new ones but married with a Brit. The variables are endless.

Boris has gone now too. Guess it's another nail in the coffin for Brexit. Well, it's been fun...
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  #12247  
Old 09.07.2018, 17:10
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Boris gone. Spineless git took time weighing up his options. No respect for him.
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  #12248  
Old 09.07.2018, 17:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Boris gone. Spineless git took time weighing up his options. No respect for him.
He is something else.. hope he rots in the political shadows.

No one is going to want him on their team. Git is right.
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  #12249  
Old 09.07.2018, 17:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Boris gone. Spineless git took time weighing up his options. No respect for him.
If you want proof that there was a lot of variance amongst Leave voters' opinions on immigration and sovereignty, look at the Tory cabinet at the moment. If everyone was dead certain on what they wanted, there wouldn't be this mutiny and they'd be able to agree on what Brexit should mean.
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  #12250  
Old 09.07.2018, 17:15
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

When in trouble or in doubt, run in circles Scream and Shout!

If I was May I’d notify the Commission that she is withdrawing her notice and then call a snap election. Won’t do the Conservative party any good, but it would screw Boris.
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  #12251  
Old 09.07.2018, 17:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Boris gone. Spineless git took time weighing up his options. No respect for him.
As London mayor he was responsible for a lot of good innovations.

As a Cabinet Minister I cannot think of any?
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  #12252  
Old 09.07.2018, 17:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

I’ll repeat something I alluded to earlier.

If the U.K. had the guts and ability to lead the EU they could be making trade agreements backed by a lot more clout that just the British economy. And with their leadership everyone in the EU would benefit. Immigration problems, if there ever was one from the EU, would disappear.
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  #12253  
Old 09.07.2018, 17:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Strong and Stable Lolz

Fox and Leadsom next to go.
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  #12254  
Old 09.07.2018, 17:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Strong and Stable Lolz
Loz, I'd put far more faith in your little ones 'borrowing' daddy's credit card and booking a holiday that you'd actually enjoy, than this shower of reprobates delivering Brexit.
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  #12255  
Old 09.07.2018, 17:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

And what of principled, risk-taking Micheal Gove? Looking rather like the wanker he is now that he's already nailed his colours firmly to the mast of sinking HMS Theresa.
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  #12256  
Old 09.07.2018, 17:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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And what of principled, risk-taking Micheal Gove? Looking rather like the wanker he is now that he's already nailed his colours firmly to the mast of sinking HMS Theresa.
Principled? You have a very short memory...
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  #12257  
Old 09.07.2018, 17:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

They're out to save their political skins.. knowing full well if the disingenuous cowards were in May's position they too would be under huge pressure to try to deliver a soft Brexit.

Nothing else is possible. Isn't it time a honest conversation was had with the British public about what the realities are?
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  #12258  
Old 09.07.2018, 17:50
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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They're out to save their political skins.. knowing full well if the disingenuous cowards were in May's position they too would be under huge pressure to try to deliver a soft Brexit.

Nothing else is possible. Isn't it time a honest conversation was had with the British public about what the realities are?
No. Because that would mean admitting the elaborate pants-on-fire journey they led the voter on which landed them here...
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  #12259  
Old 09.07.2018, 18:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

From the Beeb:
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Mrs May told MPs that the plan agreed by the cabinet at Chequers was the basis of a "responsible and credible" offer to restart renegotiations with the EU.
Restart renegotiations is it? How about seriously starting negotiations.
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  #12260  
Old 09.07.2018, 18:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Again, more bollocks.

Sovereignty - Ability to strike own trade deals (i.e. out of single market/customs union),
That is an incredibly narrow view of sovereignty to put as your first point.

Also, how do you explain the apparent advantage of striking trade deals covering maybe 20% of UK exports (even if those can be even nearly as advantageous as those the EU could conclude) at the cost of an existing free trade deal covering 50%?
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