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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #12301  
Old 10.07.2018, 11:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Yep, Boris needs to bugger off to Nice too.

He can annoy Cameron and leave the rest of us in peace.
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  #12302  
Old 10.07.2018, 11:06
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It's a Danny Dyer quote, amigo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_7dtdGWg5w

I was in Nice in May, wasn't that impressed to be fair - reminded me of Brighton; had seen better days!

Last edited by StirB; 10.07.2018 at 11:10. Reason: Changed youtube link - original had bleeped out "Twat"
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  #12303  
Old 10.07.2018, 11:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

The rats are leaving the sinking ship after causing the fatal leak.
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  #12304  
Old 10.07.2018, 12:12
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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All the great offices of state now held by Remainers - PM, Chancellor, Home Secretary, Foreign Secretary. The stitch up is almost complete.
Who's doing the stitching though?

BoJo and Davis went of their own free accord. Nobody forced them. The way I see it is, they can do bugger all on the back benches, sitting on their hands. The Tories have no appetite for a leadership election.

You can't moan about a problem unless you're prepared to be part of the solution, so BoJo should either challenge the PM or shut the eff up from hereon in. Do you think that's likely? I think we'll see his chops flapping for a good few weeks yet.
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  #12305  
Old 10.07.2018, 13:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Who's doing the stitching though?

BoJo and Davis went of their own free accord. Nobody forced them. The way I see it is, they can do bugger all on the back benches, sitting on their hands. The Tories have no appetite for a leadership election.

You can't moan about a problem unless you're prepared to be part of the solution, so BoJo should either challenge the PM or shut the eff up from hereon in. Do you think that's likely? I think we'll see his chops flapping for a good few weeks yet.
This Tory government is stitching up those who voted to leave the EU by trying to ensure that the UK remains in the EU in all but name. Remaining in the EU is preferential to what they're proposing.
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  #12306  
Old 10.07.2018, 14:05
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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This Tory government is stitching up those who voted to leave the EU by trying to ensure that the UK remains in the EU in all but name. Remaining in the EU is preferential to what they're proposing.
Because they've got no remotely workable alternative. At all.
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  #12307  
Old 10.07.2018, 14:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Who thinks they only reason he did it was that he wanted to be the only foreign minister to talk about cyclists in his resignation letter?
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  #12308  
Old 10.07.2018, 14:48
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

If you want a soft (or frictionless) borders you need to be in the EU, the single market or the customs union.

If you want to be in the EU, the single market or the customs union you need to agree to free movement.

If you want a say in what the rules are, you need to be in the EU.

Otherwise, hard borders, WTO trade regimes, limited aviation rights, lost manufacturing, lost opportunities, labour shortages (in jobs you wouldn’t do) etc. Lower quality, higher prices.

Isn’t it time to admit defeat realising that you cannot have your cake and eat it too.
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  #12309  
Old 10.07.2018, 15:00
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Because they've got no remotely workable alternative. At all.
The reason for this is because they willfully haven't made any preparations for a no Brexit deal. The EU are aware of this so aren't under any pressure to make any concessions. These negotiations couldn't have been handled any worse.
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  #12310  
Old 10.07.2018, 15:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The reason for this is because they willfully haven't made any preparations for a no Brexit deal. The EU are aware of this so aren't under any pressure to make any concessions. These negotiations couldn't have been handled any worse.
Actually the referendum itself was a massive mistake as they had no workable solutions before then even. It was a carrot-stick job so Cameron could cling onto his leadership.
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  #12311  
Old 10.07.2018, 15:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The reason for this is because they willfully haven't made any preparations for a no Brexit deal. The EU are aware of this so aren't under any pressure to make any concessions. These negotiations couldn't have been handled any worse.
The reason for this was that what they were proposing from the get-go was impossible, it's just nobody wants to see or admit this; least of all Brexiteers who are determined to pull the country into oblivion just to save face.
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  #12312  
Old 10.07.2018, 15:26
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Boris Johnson Has Ruined Britain
“He knows that the verdict of history is about to come down on him — and bury him.”

By Jenni Russell

LONDON — For the second time in three years, Boris Johnson, a politician whose ambition and superficial charm far outstrip his ability, judgment or principles, is destabilizing the British government and threatening the country’s future.

On Monday, Mr. Johnson, in protest against Prime Minister Theresa May’s plans for Brexit, resigned from his post as foreign secretary. Now Mrs. May’s authority, longevity and ability to deliver a Brexit without causing an economic crisis are in question. But further political paralysis seems certain.

Britain is in this mess principally because the Brexiteers — led largely by Mr. Johnson — sold the country a series of lies in the lead up to the June 2016 referendum on leaving the European Union. They did so because neither Mr. Johnson nor his fellow leader of the Leave campaign, Michael Gove, intended, wanted or expected to win.

At the start of 2016, Mr. Johnson was perhaps the most popular politician in Britain. Supporters and fans mobbed him at train stations and traffic lights; pollsters and pundits thought he could reach the parts of the country that other Conservatives could never touch. But he was also driven and insecure, so desperate to guarantee he would be the next prime minister that he cynically abandoned his own previous positions on the European Union in order to try to secure support from his party’s Euroskeptic right wing.

Because Mr. Johnson and Mr. Gove were confident that the Leave campaign was a hopeless cause, they were free to make ridiculous claims that they had no expectation of ever having to fulfill. They said that Brexit would make Britain both richer and more independent, with more money for the National Health Service, much greater control of immigration and continued friction-free trade with Europe.
Every earnest warning from the other side — about how any Brexit would damage trade, business and jobs — was dismissed airily by the Brexiteers. There were no costs or downsides in this vision of the future.

This casual dishonesty has had devastating consequences.

In the two years since the Leave campaign unexpectedly won, nobody, from the prime minister to Mr. Johnson to the Labour Party, has been able to come up with a plan for exiting the European Union that can satisfy both a majority in Parliament and the expectant public. Why? Because fulfilling the false promises peddled by Mr. Johnson during the campaign is impossible.

The gulf between the easy, prosperous, productive Brexit that its voters are impatiently expecting, and the grim, complicated cost of disentangling economies that have been intertwined for decades has poisoned and paralyzed British politics.

The Conservatives’ leaders cannot admit to the electorate that they were deceived without splitting the party. And instead of apologizing for misleading voters, Mr. Johnson and the other Brexiteers have doubled down, taking refuge in optimistic slogans and vapid promises, refusing to believe the increasingly agitated evidence from hospitals, airlines, farmers, supermarkets and factories that a hard Brexit will damage them all.

Last week, Mrs. May finally attempted to force a recognition of reality on her divided cabinet by coming up with a compromise; a partial Brexit that allows goods free access in and out of Europe at the cost of accepting many European rules. It was an imperfect plan, but still it provided, finally, a starting point for negotiations with Brussels.

For three days, that compromise held, until the first political delusionist, the Brexit Secretary David Davis, broke free, still claiming that in some magical future Britain could get almost everything it wanted, if only the country would just stand by its demands.
Petrified of being outflanked, Mr. Johnson followed suit, bringing with him the implicit threat that he could lead a rebellion against the government that other hardline Brexiteers will follow. It is a desperate move by a man who has lost almost all the credibility he had three years ago.
All of Mr. Johnson’s weaknesses have been exposed: his lazy reluctance to do detail, his preference for bluster over thinking, his contempt for business. The campaign was meant to secure his future; instead, in damaging the country, he fears he has wrecked his own future, too. As one of his allies told me last month: “He knows that the verdict of history is about to come down on him — and bury him.”

Mr. Johnson seems to believe that this is his last chance to become prime minister: After his resignation this week, he hopes to be reborn as a rebel who will lead the party. But more likely is that he will once again create political chaos without delivering what he wants.

Two years ago, the side effect of Mr. Johnson’s ambitious maneuvering was to split the country and risk the prosperity and security of all Britons for decades. Now, just as a fragile basis for negotiation emerges, his selfish drive for vindication, attention and admiration threatens that, too.
It is petrifying that the deliberate deceptions and wild ego of one man can so mislead a nation. (Americans know all about that.) One insider told me that Mrs. May was prepared for Mr. Johnson’s defection, and will outflank him, persuading wavering Conservatives that the time for fantasy has passed.

But Britain is teetering on the edge, on the verge of making catastrophic, irreversibly damaging mistakes. The danger is that Johnson might tip the balance in the wrong direction once again.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/10/o...on-brexit.html
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  #12313  
Old 10.07.2018, 15:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It was a carrot-stick job so Cameron could cling onto his leadership.
My belief is that he wanted to silence the back bench insurre4ctors once and for all, but it massively backfired.

Just going back...

8 May 2015
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Only once before in recent history has an incumbent government increased its majority - and that was Mrs Thatcher in her prime in the 1980s.

It is also a significant personal victory for Mr Cameron and a rebuff for those in his party who had become increasingly sceptical about his ability to win.


But while it may represent a defeat for those Tories who saw this election as a potential opportunity to rid themselves of David Cameron, he must now govern with a wafer-thin majority.
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2015-32651603


We now have a PM who only needs to lose one seat, to lose the right of her coalition to govern. One seat! May is in a far worse position than Cameron was at any time in his leadership, yet she's still standing. I watched 4 political commentators last night all say that the rumblings in Parliament are that the Tories can't agree on anyone to replace her.



It's high time the UK had a government that actually governed instead of running scared of back bench sniping. It's utterly pathetic and the entire reason we're in this mess in the first place.
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  #12314  
Old 10.07.2018, 15:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Actually the referendum itself was a massive mistake as they had no workable solutions before then even. It was a carrot-stick job so Cameron could cling onto his leadership.
Let's remind ourselves who the first party were to recommend an EU referendum.

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Old 10.07.2018, 15:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Let's remind ourselves who the first party were to recommend an EU referendum.

Cleggy dodges a bullet.
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  #12316  
Old 10.07.2018, 15:48
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The reason for this was that what they were proposing from the get-go was impossible, it's just nobody wants to see or admit this; least of all Brexiteers who are determined to pull the country into oblivion just to save face.
It would have been possible if they'd gone into the negotiations with a Plan B (i.e. prepare for no deal and with prepare to turn the UK into a low tax low regulation economy). With this as a backstop the UK could have made reasonable demands.
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  #12317  
Old 10.07.2018, 16:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It would have been possible if they'd gone into the negotiations with a Plan B (i.e. prepare for no deal and with prepare to turn the UK into a low tax low regulation economy). With this as a backstop the UK could have made reasonable demands.
So give us what we want or we'll shoot ourself in the head. Seems a good negotiating strategy.
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  #12318  
Old 10.07.2018, 16:08
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So give us what we want or we'll shoot ourself in the head. Seems a good negotiating strategy.
Better strategy than "let's do nothing and hope the EU throw us a bone" which at the moment will result in the UK becoming a permanent vassal.
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  #12319  
Old 10.07.2018, 16:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Better strategy than "let's do nothing and hope the EU throw us a bone" which at the moment will result in the UK becoming a permanent vassal.
Probably would just have been better to remain in the EU, that's becoming pretty clear.

It's not fair to blame the people promoting Leave though, they've only had 45 years of membership to form a coherent Brexit strategy. Sigh.

It's almost like each of them only want to pursue the Brexit that suits them and don't give two hoots about the rest of the country...Shirley Knot.
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Old 10.07.2018, 16:56
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Let's remind ourselves who the first party were to recommend an EU referendum.
Who cares; and more to the point what has that to do with the title of this thread
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