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Jim2007 · #**12341** 12.07.2018, 21:14

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Who said anything about dictating? I'm talking about negotiating. Thanks to the useless government the UK has neither a carrot to offer nor a stick to threaten with in these negotiations which means the EU can dictate what they want.

It seems like it is a very hard lesson for you to learn, major trading blocks do not have to negotiate with small or medium size economies! They tell you what is on offer and you get to decide if you want it or not.... and if your lucky you might get a few face saving concessions so you can dress it up for home consumption. The US will do exactly the same as we have already seen in their air traffic proposal.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	As for the EU, we're soon going to discover how "strong" it is. All very well imposing tit for tat tariffs, but it's a different kettle of fish when you have a US President threatening to pull defence. The EU was only ever able to embark on it's socialist nirvana experiment because someone else was picking up the tab for protection.

A little rant, that has nothing to do with the UK's negotiation position vis-a-via the EU. Other than to point out the Donald would loose first strike actability should he decide to exit Europe, of course since he is Putin's man perhaps that is where this is going.

#**12342** 13.07.2018, 06:35

	Quote:	Jim2007
	It seems like it is a very hard lesson for you to learn, major trading blocks do not have to negotiate with small or medium size economies! They tell you what is on offer and you get to decide if you want it or not.... and if your lucky you might get a few face saving concessions so you can dress it up for home consumption. The US will do exactly the same as we have already seen in their air traffic proposal.

Just like the CETA agreement with Canada

, you really have created a wonderful reality for yourself.

#**12343** 13.07.2018, 07:53

GET HIM A TAXI!

How does this work?

#**12344** 13.07.2018, 08:00

Well this is going well.

Trump: Brexit plan 'will probably kill' US trade deal

TobiasM · #**12345** 13.07.2018, 09:00

If anyone believed before that Trump would help Britain post Brexit, they must have been living in La La Land. Trump is only concerned about himself. What I cannot fathom is how May thought it might be a good idea to have him over for a visit. Then again May is living in La La Land along with all those that still believe exiting the EU makes sense.

marton · #**12346** 13.07.2018, 09:06

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Just like the CETA agreement with Canada , you really have created a wonderful reality for yourself.

CETA was started as a result of a joint study "Assessing the Costs and Benefits of a Closer EU-Canada Economic Partnership",which was released in October 2008. Until its formal entry into force, substantial parts are provisionally applied from 21 September 2017

So 10 years until full implementation; you think this is a good example

#**12347** 13.07.2018, 09:08

	Quote:	TobiasM
	If anyone believed before that Trump would help Britain post Brexit, they must have been living in La La Land. Trump is only concerned about himself. What I cannot fathom is how May thought it might be a good idea to have him over for a visit. Then again May is living in La La Land along with all those that still believe exiting the EU makes sense.

As has been said on here before, Trump's goal is to break up the EU. Everything else (re Europe) follows that.

#**12348** 13.07.2018, 09:08

	Quote:	marton
	CETA was started as a result of a joint study "Assessing the Costs and Benefits of a Closer EU-Canada Economic Partnership",which was released in October 2008. Until its formal entry into force, substantial parts are provisionally applied from 21 September 2017 So 10 years until full implementation; you think this is a good example

Jim said, "major trading blocks do not have to negotiate with small or medium size economies! They tell you what is on offer and you get to decide if you want it or not.... " which is bollocks.

#**12349** 13.07.2018, 09:09

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Jim said, "major trading blocks do not have to negotiate with small or medium size economies! They tell you what is on offer and you get to decide if you want it or not.... " which is bollocks.

That is exactly how Trump is trying to operate.

marton · #**12350** 13.07.2018, 09:16

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Jim said, "major trading blocks do not have to negotiate with small or medium size economies! They tell you what is on offer and you get to decide if you want it or not.... " which is bollocks.

So how does the CETA deal support your "bollocks" claim?

#**12351** 13.07.2018, 09:20

	Quote:	marton
	So how does the CETA deal support your "bollocks" claim?

Does that really need explaining?

Canada is a medium sized economy. The EU negotiated a deal with Canada. The EU didn't tell Canada what was on offer, take it or leave it.

Jim2007 · #**12352** 13.07.2018, 09:22

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Just like the CETA agreement with Canada , you really have created a wonderful reality for yourself.

The CETA style agreement was ruled out by the UK - like I said you get to see what is on offer and decide if you want it.

marton · #**12353** 13.07.2018, 09:26

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Does that really need explaining? Canada is a medium sized economy. The EU negotiated a deal with Canada. The EU didn't tell Canada what was on offer, take it or leave it.

"EU didn't tell Canada what was on offer, take it or leave it." Your source for this is?

TobiasM · #**12354** 13.07.2018, 10:03

	Quote:
	That is exactly how Trump is trying to operate.

And that is another reason, as to why we need to stick together with the EU and to ensure that we have a secure NATO. Trump is not working for global security. Putin is gleefully rubbing his hands at all of this chaos, it seems to be going to plan for him.

The sooner Brexit gets shelved the better. The sooner the puppet Trump is hurled out of office the better.

bowlie · #**12355** 13.07.2018, 10:23

	Quote:	marton
	"EU didn't tell Canada what was on offer, take it or leave it." Your source for this is?

I think the years of negotiations is a very big clue. And I believe both parties are of the view that the agreement is in their interest. A win-win.

Unlike Brexit which is a lose-lose.

#**12356** 13.07.2018, 10:35

	Quote:	TobiasM
	And that is another reason, as to why we need to stick together with the EU and to ensure that we have a secure NATO. Trump is not working for global security. Putin is gleefully rubbing his hands at all of this chaos, it seems to be going to plan for him.

Exactly Tom. The EU was indeed not perfect and in dire need of reform- but we were equal partners, actually one of the 'superior' partners, with great influence and with concessions no one else had (Sterling and Schengen)...

Now, we are in such a position that we will have to accept any conditions with Trump, Putin, China and others pulling alll the strings- and will indeed be small vassals and defo NOT partners. Even India is dictating terms- which the Government refused to publish- but which have been outed by Greenpeace

According to the chapter on non-tariff trade barriers written by Indian policymakers, the main issues concern the EU’s limits on the trace amounts of pesticides in food products, its restrictions on hormone-disrupting chemicals, and the burden of its complex REACH chemical regulations.

The EU’s limits on the amount of chemical residue found in food products is clearly a source of aggravation to Indian businesses, who describe complications complying with rules on a range of exports:

Trace amounts of of fungicide in basmati rice
Growth retarding chemicals in grapes
Aflatoxins in chillies and spices
Antibiotics in fish products
Food hygiene standards at processing plants involved in milk products such as paneer"

Beggars are rarely (never) choosers.

fatmanfilms · #**12357** 13.07.2018, 10:36

	Quote:	bowlie
	Unlike Brexit which is a lose-lose.

I see it as a fresh start.

Troublawesome · #**12358** 13.07.2018, 11:03

Funny how Brexit is most sought by those who will be affected the least, particularly people over 60+ and expats on cosy countries.

No matter how many bad news they get they just won't reconsider. Even now when it seems US, India and all those trade deals were pure fiction and Trump undermines the PM of an ally country in live TV, they still don't get who their friends and who their enemies are.

In my opinion Brexit will be cancelled, no side wants this end result.

dandi · #**12359** 13.07.2018, 12:01

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I see it as a fresh start.

A fresh start doesn't mean you end up in a better place than where you are now. It just means you start all over again end end up god knows where.

And if you think there is a some kind of conscience in the political class that will prevent making the same mistakes as have been done before, prepare to be seriously disappointed...

TobiasM · #**12360** 13.07.2018, 12:20

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I see it as a fresh start.

Its not really a fresh start, as we are already tied into all sorts of incredibly complicated trade contracts and deals that will just take time and money to renegotiate, with most possible outcomes being far worse for the UK. We don't have a leg to stand on, our bargaining chips are down and the EU knows it. It doesnt take a genius to figure that out. Now we are being held to ransome by Trump who is clumsily trying to sieze the opportunity to force Britain into a dangerous position by publicly stating that a soft Brexit will damage trade between the US and the UK. Of course no one will fall for those threats, simply because we already know that in any sort of EU exit, Trump will treat any trade deals between the US and the UK with an equal contempt.