The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	Phil_MCR
	Your link basically confirmed what I said.

Well as you said...:

	Quote:	Phil_MCR
	The EU itself refused to accede to the ECHR

then no, you said the opposite. The EU, in the Lisbon Treaty committed itself to accede to the ECHR. They are however struggling to make it legally possible which is somethin completely different.

[Castro]

The Sun has just come out on the Brexit side, which is significant given that Murdoch doesn't tend to back losers and his media holds huge sway over the British population (Liverpool excluded).

SUN SAYS We urge our readers to beLEAVE in Britain and vote to quit the EU on June 23

THIS is our last chance to remove ourselves from the undemocratic Brussels machine ... and it's time to take it
BY THE SUN 13th June 2016, 9:58 pm



WE are about to make the biggest political decision of our lives. The Sun urges everyone to vote LEAVE.

We must set ourselves free from dictatorial Brussels.

Throughout our 43-year membership of the European Union it has proved increasingly greedy, wasteful, bullying and breathtakingly incompetent in a crisis.

Next Thursday, at the ballot box, we can correct this huge and historic mistake.

It is our last chance. Because, be in no doubt, our future looks far bleaker if we stay in.

Outside the EU we can become richer, safer and free at long last to forge our own destiny — as America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and many other great democracies already do. And as we were the first to do centuries ago.

If we stay, Britain will be engulfed in a few short years by this relentlessly expanding German dominated federal state.

For all David Cameron’s witless assurances, our powers and values WILL be further eroded.

Staying in will be worse for immigration, worse for jobs, worse for wages and worse for our way of life.

Greece is bankrupt.

Italy is in danger of going the same way, with even more disastrous consequences.

In Spain, 45 per cent of those under 25 are out of work.

And numerous even poorer and worse-governed countries are now joining the EU.

Full statement

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Castro
	[COLOR="Red"] Greece is bankrupt. Italy is in danger of going the same way, with even more disastrous consequences. In Spain, 45 per cent of those under 25 are out of work.

Three countries that have highly benefited from EU funds for years and years. Right.

Must credit The Sun for twisting unrelated facts to EU bad government and consequently to beLEAVE campaign.

[Sbrinz]

Britain will in future not pay any child allowances for children living abroad, and not entitled to live in the UK: an EU court has confirmed this is legal,

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36526158

Will someone please inform the Leave camp about this useful opt out clause that Cameron achieved?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Phil_MCR
	This is logically false.

Educate yourself...

	Quote:
	The first thing to do is distinguish between two courts: the European Court of Justice (ECJ) and the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR). The ECHR, which was indeed involved in the Abu Qatada case and some (but not all) of the cases about prisoners being allowed to vote, is not part of the EU.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-...endum-36149798

What is fact or not has become totally lost in this campaign of lies... so if it influences how people vote, it is relevant, somehow!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...5403340&type=3

[Sbrinz]

After watching hours of TV about making the choice for the referendum, I conclude that many people in Britain are accusing the EU of making life difficult for the UK.

Often they are quoting things like "The UK has no control over it's borders"
Every time I visit the UK we all have to show our passports, and non EU foreigners must have a visa. It is general knowledge now that the law states that any foreigner not having an income will be asked to leave after 6 months, or be deported.

That many foreigners remain after 6 months has nothing to do with EU laws, it is the UK's inability to control visitors. Another useful fact is there is less immigration from the EU than from the rest of the world. I assume that many people arrive for a holiday, and then avoid being deported, it is hardly the result of the EU laws on free movement.

[hannah'sauntie]

A great article, imho, from Diccon Bewes...

http://www.dicconbewes.com/2016/06/1...ing-to-remain/

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	Every time I visit the UK we all have to show our passports, and non EU foreigners must have a visa.

I got back from two weeks in the UK on Saturday. On arrival, I was told two of the automatic passport check booths were broken, so was diverted to the non-EU channel. I held up my passport and was waved through without it being opened and checked.


Having walked through an area of Brussels airport still showing the signs of bomb damage only 2hrs earlier, I really hoped for better in my native country.


At departures, at a gate in some remote part of the airport I've never been to before, again I was told that the electronic passport check machines (the desktop ones this time) were broken at that gate. My passport was manually checked, i.e. the guy looked at me and looked at the photo on my passport.


I know there have been huge budget cuts made to the Border Force Agency. I know the odds of my passport not being properly checked both upon arrival and departure are pretty high, but it didn't inspire me with faith. On departure, it actually made me feel vulnerable, and I did a quick scan round the room at the other passengers for my flight. The overheard chatter on the bus to the plane was also about how lax security was. My passport wasn't properly checked until I transfered to Pier A at Brussels airport.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	I did a quick scan round the room at the other passengers for my flight.

What for?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:
	What for?

To see their reactions to the announcement. It was a very small flight, Embraer ERJ-145. There were a few tuts and heads shaking.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	To see their reactions to the announcement. It was a very small flight, Embraer ERJ-145. There were a few tuts and heads shaking.

What announcement?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:
	What announcement?

It was announced that the electronic passport checking machines were down at that part of the terminal, so passports would be manually checked.

There were four gates in that particular room, and all the passport machines were out of order. My flight was the only one departing from that area.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	It was announced that the electronic passport checking machines were down at that part of the terminal, so passports would be manually checked. There were four gates in that particular room, and all the passport machines were out of order. My flight was the only one departing from that area.

I still don't understand why this would make you feel "vulnerable" and consequently feel the need to "scan" the other passengers on the flight.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	It was announced that the electronic passport checking machines were down at that part of the terminal, so passports would be manually checked. There were four gates in that particular room, and all the passport machines were out of order. My flight was the only one departing from that area.

so the passport machines use a common information channel (or "cable" to give it a more technical name) and there was a problem with that, affecting all machines in the vicinity. common stuff in the world of IT.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:
	I still don't understand why this would make you feel "vulnerable" and consequently feel the need to "scan" the other passengers on the flight.

I feel vulnerable when I'm waved through security because I could be anybody. My passport could be fake. If my passport isn't checked, who else's isn't getting checked? I was far from the only one who commented on this, and I think it's appalling that I can fly from Switzerland to the UK and back again, and the only time my passport was properly checked was transiting between terminals at Brussels airport and at Zurich airport.

I expect...demand far better of UK airport security.

I've never had this happen before, and hopefully it won't happen again.

[Phil_MCR]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Educate yourself... http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-...endum-36149798

Learn to read.

Where did I say that ECtHR was part of the EU?

	Quote:	Blueangel
	I feel vulnerable when I'm waved through security because I could be anybody. My passport could be fake. If my passport isn't checked, who else's isn't getting checked? I was far from the only one who commented on this, and I think it's appalling that I can fly from Switzerland to the UK and back again, and the only time my passport was properly checked was transiting between terminals at Brussels airport and at Zurich airport. I expect...demand far better of UK airport security. I've never had this happen before, and hopefully it won't happen again.

But it was checked at the gate, wasn't it?


And you still haven't adequately explained why your feelings of vulnerability led you to "scan" the other passengers boarding the flight.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	I feel vulnerable when I'm waved through security because I could be anybody. My passport could be fake. If my passport isn't checked, who else's isn't getting checked? I was far from the only one who commented on this, and I think it's appalling that I can fly from Switzerland to the UK and back again, and the only time my passport was properly checked was transiting between terminals at Brussels airport and at Zurich airport. I expect...demand far better of UK airport security. I've never had this happen before, and hopefully it won't happen again.

It's very recent (since Schengen) that the UK has actually checked passports, when the UK passport was blue you were just waved through.

I took 5 flights in 2 days starting & ending in Switzerland, I never once showed a passport at any time.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:
	But it was checked at the gate, wasn't it? And you still haven't adequately explained why your feelings of vulnerability led you to "scan" the other passengers boarding the flight.

Not to the standard I would hope. A cursory glance at a passport photo just doesn't hack it for me. I've been through far tighter security just to go on an airside fam trip at LHR, than to fly from the UK to Brussels. That's wrong on every level.

Have you never scanned a room for a reaction? Really?