The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[TobiasM]

	Quote:
	I'm enjoying the technical details of this thread, which nobody seems to have a full grasp of. I'd say in summary: I'm alright Jack...until I'm not.

Is that an analogy for Brexit

[TobiasM]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Odile, I genuinely believed it is a minor issue, didn't even think of same issues as DB. I can see you are worried about the time lost in queues in such, maybe my experiences weren't that bad so far. I can be "disagreeable" at times but wouldn't imply those things about you. Peace.

I understand Odiles worries, we will lose our ease of passage. Until you actually have to put up with the queues you won’t understand the pain it will be. Ever been to the US? I hate that system.

[Belgianmum]

	Quote:
	The point is BM, that those that swim or come by small dinghy from Africa to Malta, and on to Sicily, or Africa to Sicily and on to mainland Italy- have NOT come from a Schengen zone...I suspect you have not been to Sicily or Malta recently?

So why mention the Americans and Japanese then? That’s the part I don’t understand and which is totally irrelevant yet you used it as an example.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:
	To be fair, people of a federalist mindset could be expected to feel entitled to travel within the European Union (at least the Schengen Zone) without having to show a passport. Whatever the reality on the ground, that was always the expectation - otherwise, what's the point of a European Union?

I don't think the EU is about that at all. It is about expanding markets for old membres to new member territories. Destroying new members' local companies by easy globalisation access, international moguls dumping prices there but scoring still high profits. Allowing new members the mobility to push out labor forces in old member countries, instead of individual old members' governement investing in bringing their labor forces to competitive levels. Protectionism seen as evil and uncooperative, when in fact they were the only measures saving little govs their autonomy and accountability to their own people. Accountability to Brussels is proving highly inefficient and costly.

Border checks are just an issue of travel comfort. People who care for that have obviously high standards of life. There are other priorities in play.

There are efforts to oppose the EU standards imposed on new members because they do not serve the small guys at all. Standards in edu, health care, labor law, social aspects, maternity, etc. To have the Brussel cop sticking their nose in small guys businesses...urghhh. Small guys will have to put up with that, because nobody trusts Russkies.

I think federalism only functions where there is a high autonomy of members. US needs it, the states are not autonomous enough. EU - not autonomous. CH - it works. Autonomy, because the protectionist measures are a priority. The small govs are powerful and dispose high capital. It is completely linked.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	TobiasM
	Ever been to the US? I hate that system.

Yes. Thought that was the price to pay to visit the land of the free..

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	UK address not required at all. Tax residence in EU.

For anyone who wants to know a few facts on the matter...

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2017/08...what-can-i-do/

	Quote:	TobiasM
	Ever been to the US? I hate that system.

Once did almost 3hrs in the queue at McCarran Airport.

If it's any consolation, OH doesn't have a Epassport, but he almost always beats me through the immigration queues.

	Quote:	Belgianmum
	So why mention the Americans and Japanese then? That’s the part I don’t understand and which is totally irrelevant yet you used it as an example.

oh BM, because FMF said that people from Schengen area did not have to be checked going into another Schengen area- and it reminded me that on our last flight, there were many people who were not from Schengen areas, just happened to be on a flight to and from- and they just happened to be American and Japanese. FGS.

	Quote:	TobiasM
	I understand Odiles worries, we will lose our ease of passage. Until you actually have to put up with the queues you won’t understand the pain it will be. Ever been to the US? I hate that system.

But I did Tobias, pre EU- and pre my acquisition of British nationality, and pre reciprocal agreements with CH. As I mentioned above- OH and baby going through in minutes- and me stuck for ages in the other queue, non British. I did not mind the company at all - but it did take ages- and one of the reasons I applied for British nationality immediately after. A baby screaming in the airport waiting for her mum so she could be BF after the flight- is not much fun- especially when you are disabled or in pain.

	Quote:	MusicChick
	I think federalism only functions where there is a high autonomy of members. US needs it, the states are not autonomous enough. EU - not autonomous. CH - it works.

Do you really think EU states lack autonomy? Compared to US states, they are massively more autonomous. They are sovreign, have their own armies, currencies (sometimes), official languages, citizenship requirements etc etc.

How do you think they need to be more autonomous to function better?

[st2lemans]

	Quote:
	oh BM, because FMF said that people from Schengen area did not have to be checked going into another Schengen area- and it reminded me that on our last flight, there were many people who were not from Schengen areas, just happened to be on a flight to and from- and they just happened to be American and Japanese. FGS.

They don't have to be checked in that case.

It doesn't matter if they are FROM a Schengen country, just travelling within the Schengen zone.

It's no different than travelling from one canton to another.

And how do you know for sure that they were Japanese?

Tom

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I am amazed an OAP actually worries about a few extra minutes in a queue, they always seem to shop at peak times rather than when people are working.

If it was a few minutes - but when you are disabled, as I was then, or have very sore knees or back, etc - sorry, standing for 30 to 40 mins in a queue can be very painful indeed.

As for shopping, totally agree- I never ever shop at peak times, remembering how it would annoy me so when working very full time, with kids and tons to do and so little time. So we agree, hurrah.

Leave you to it - tons to do and it is a lovely lovely day- yet again.

	Quote:
	A baby screaming in the airport waiting for her mum so she could be BF after the flight- is not much fun- especially when you are disabled or in pain.

Why did you split up? When we travel to England, we all stay together in the non-EU line - even though all but one of us is British.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	bowlie
	The days of full partner liability is coming to an end. Lombard Odier became a limited liability partnership a couple of years ago. Why? FATCA.

Yes they are, but not because of FATCA. FATCA is less than 10 years old whereas the trend for investment banks from partnerships to LLC's started 50 years ago (if memory serves DLJ were the first in the '70ies) and largely completed in 1999 with GS's IPO. It makes no sense, from an individual perspective, to assume unlimited risk when there's no penalty for limiting one's risk.

[pdofr]

	Quote:
	Why did you split up? When we travel to England, we all stay together in the non-EU line - even though all but one of us is British.

You've just reminded me of the time a German colleague took his young teenage daughters to the UK. He had his German passport, his daughters had Swiss passports.

So being one who blindly follows the rules (stereotypes do exist), he sent his daughters through the non-EU channel (this was circa 2000) and went through the EU channel himself.

Once through he waited, and waited, and waited, and still no daughters...

UK immigration had asked these non-EU teenagers simple questions like "What hotel are you staying in?" (no idea). "Where are your tickets?" (father had them) and "How much money do you have?" (not enough).

Oops.

It was resolved once he started looking for them, but that wouldn't have been straightforward either, since his English wasn't very good.

	Quote:
	Why did you split up? When we travel to England, we all stay together in the non-EU line - even though all but one of us is British.

Whereas we (2/4 non-EU) all stay together and join the British/EU passport queue. Never been challenged.

	Quote:
	Whereas we (2/4 non-EU) all stay together and join the British/EU passport queue. Never been challenged.

We were explicitly sent through the non-EU channel at Birmingham. It was no big deal. I honestly don't know what all the fuss is about - unless it's the elephant in the room (Indian or African, take your pick)

[pdofr]

	Quote:
	We were explicitly sent through the non-EU channel at Birmingham. It was no big deal. I honestly don't know what all the fuss is about...

It does make a difference when the non-EU queue is a mile long and the EU queue is small.

I've done it the other way around, of course, going through the non-EU queue when that was significantly shorter.

	Quote:	MusicChick
	I don't think the EU is about that at all. It is about expanding markets for old membres to new member territories. Destroying new members' local companies by easy globalisation access, international moguls dumping prices there but scoring still high profits. Allowing new members the mobility to push out labor forces in old member countries, instead of individual old members' governement investing in bringing their labor forces to competitive levels. Protectionism seen as evil and uncooperative, when in fact they were the only measures saving little govs their autonomy and accountability to their own people. Accountability to Brussels is proving highly inefficient and costly. Border checks are just an issue of travel comfort. People who care for that have obviously high standards of life. There are other priorities in play. There are efforts to oppose the EU standards imposed on new members because they do not serve the small guys at all. Standards in edu, health care, labor law, social aspects, maternity, etc. To have the Brussel cop sticking their nose in small guys businesses...urghhh. Small guys will have to put up with that, because nobody trusts Russkies. I think federalism only functions where there is a high autonomy of members. US needs it, the states are not autonomous enough. EU - not autonomous. CH - it works. Autonomy, because the protectionist measures are a priority. The small govs are powerful and dispose high capital. It is completely linked.

Yes, that is exactly what the EU is all about. It's written into the EU Constitution. Small, defenceless countries are forced against their will into modern slavery by the huge, "old European" bullies like Belgium and Luxembourg, purely for the benefit of corporations in those bully countries.

It's all a cover for the Grand Plan, which is to establish control over all of Europe (including Turkey and Northern Africa), centred in the world's hotbed for communism, Brussels. Eastern European countries, your days in the Free World are numbered!

	Quote:
	... unless it's the elephant in the room (Indian or African, take your pick)

I thought it was "show a (insert nationality to be insulted) a row of shovels and tell him to take his pick" -- but I guess elephants would work as well.

[amogles]

	Quote:	pdofr
	You've just reminded me of the time a German colleague took his young teenage daughters to the UK. He had his German passport, his daughters had Swiss passports. So being one who blindly follows the rules (stereotypes do exist), he sent his daughters through the non-EU channel (this was circa 2000) and went through the EU channel himself. Once through he waited, and waited, and waited, and still no daughters... UK immigration had asked these non-EU teenagers simple questions like "What hotel are you staying in?" (no idea). "Where are your tickets?" (father had them) and "How much money do you have?" (not enough). Oops. It was resolved once he started looking for them, but that wouldn't have been straightforward either, since his English wasn't very good.

Daughter of a friend was in a similar situation once. When it turned out she didn't have any cash on her at all, or any credit card that would work outside her home country, and not even a toothbrush or change of clothes (all in the main luggage which Dad had) they started asking all sorts of awkward questions. She is autistic and tends to get monsyllabic or just not say anything at all when under stress. So it wasn't exactly looking good for her. Fortunately her dad was quick to realize what was going on and could intervene.

Now he always go with her all the way.