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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #13101  
Old 27.08.2018, 15:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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EF members are hardly representative of the UK population
Especially as many are ineligible to vote in the UK
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  #13102  
Old 27.08.2018, 16:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Are you suggesting the Swiss never have a referendum twice on the same topic?
No, I was referring to the Swiss culture of moving on and accepting a referendum result. They don't howl here for two years and demand a second vote because they didn't like the outcome of the first.

If we take the example of Swiss entering EU, there have been a number of votes, but there have been breaks of several years between them with the last being in 2001. Perhaps it's high time all you EU luvvies demand Switzerland has another chance to enter into Elysium .
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  #13103  
Old 27.08.2018, 16:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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No, I was referring to the Swiss culture of moving on and accepting a referendum result. They don't howl here for two years and demand a second vote because they didn't like the outcome of the first.

If we take the example of Swiss entering EU, there have been a number of votes, but there have been breaks of several years between them with the last being in 2001. Perhaps it's high time all you EU luvvies demand Switzerland has another chance to enter into Elysium .
They seem to have not not demanded a vote on Eigenmietwert a lot recently. I'm glad it looks like it is finally going to be abolished though, so viva multi-votes!
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  #13104  
Old 27.08.2018, 16:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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No, I was referring to the Swiss culture of moving on and accepting a referendum result. They don't howl here for two years and demand a second vote because they didn't like the outcome of the first.
I guess that's because the Swiss do it properly the first time round.

Comparing the UK EU referendum to the Swiss system in general is on pretty shaky ground.

The UK system, in this case, stank to high heaven. If a Swiss one had been run in the same shambolic way, you can bet there would be howling going on.
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  #13105  
Old 27.08.2018, 16:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It looks more like the hardened Brexiters are sh*t scared that a fair and informed campaign will knock the first result resoundingly into the grass.

If they are THAT confident nothing will change then why not go ahead with a new vote?
Because they're so busy banging on about 'listening to the voice of the people', that they've missed out their little caveat of 'so now you can shut the eff up for another 40yrs'.

Can someone please remind me of what the procedure would be if the Tory DUP alliance lose a seat within the next few months, thereby becoming a minority within the House? The fat lady hasn't even warmed up yet, never mind begun her aria.
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  #13106  
Old 27.08.2018, 17:00
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

The Prime Minister was elected on a majority vote of the Members of Parliament. Nothing changes automatically should she lose her majority. However, subject to the rules of the house, she could be subject to a vote of no confidence. Tradition suggests that should she lose such a vote she is compelled to visit the Queen and ask her to dissolve Parliament. She would then call elections.

Depending on the circumstances the Queen could ask another party leader to attempt to form a majority and if so, said leader would become the next PM
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  #13107  
Old 27.08.2018, 17:00
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Because they're so busy banging on about 'listening to the voice of the people', that they've missed out their little caveat of 'so now you can shut the eff up for another 40yrs'.

Can someone please remind me of what the procedure would be if the Tory DUP alliance lose a seat within the next few months, thereby becoming a minority within the House? The fat lady hasn't even warmed up yet, never mind begun her aria.
No deal is getting through parliament as things stand for various reasons:- too hard, too soft, Labour playing politics etc. So either it’ll be no deal or they’ll have to put it up to another referendum in order to break the deadlock. Even then things become complicated as what do you put on the ballot paper?
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  #13108  
Old 27.08.2018, 17:06
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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No deal is getting through parliament as things stand for various reasons:- too hard, too soft, Labour playing politics etc. So either it’ll be no deal or they’ll have to put it up to another referendum in order to break the deadlock. Even then things become complicated as what do you put on the ballot paper?
Precisely the reason it shouldn't have gone to a referendum in the first place.

Sticking an arbitrary "YES" or "NO" option in front of the population is a damning indictment that the government was clueless from the very beginning and never seriously considered a "NO" vote.

Project Leave saw an opportunity for a power grab at any cost and the rest is history.
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  #13109  
Old 27.08.2018, 20:00
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Arghhh those arch liberal socialists at KPMG are scare mongering, again:


Explaining the findings James Stewart, Head of Brexit at KPMG UK said: “This survey shows the public expect a ‘no deal’ Brexit and plan to spend accordingly. The results reveal how people are anticipating substantial disruption in the short to medium-term, before they expect Brexit to have a more positive effect on the economy in the medium to long term. During this period of disruption Brits expect prices to go up, delays at airports and sea ports, plus a potential hit to the pound. The mood music of the Brexit talks is likely to have a direct effect on consumer confidence.”

In terms of behavioural change in the event of a ‘no deal’ Brexit:

43% of the public said they were very likely or likely to cut everyday spending.
45% of the public said they were very likely or likely to cut non-essential spending.
48% of the public said they were very likely or likely to cut luxury spending.
47% of the public said they were very likely or likely to delay major purchases.

The people most likely to alter their consumer behaviour in the event of 'No Deal' (from stockpiling food to cutting essential spending) are: those with concerns about prices rising as a consequence of 'No Deal', those under 35 and those who are female.

Explaining how these findings could affect the retail industry, Paul Martin, Head of Retail at KPMG UK said: “Too few businesses have fully considered how consumer buying patterns may change if a no-deal scenario were to occur. We often find companies stockpiling inventory to mitigate potential customs delays without calculating how a squeeze on liquidity or a reduction in discretionary spend could affect their cashflow. Consumers, especially those of working age, are genuinely worried about price increases and travel delays and if no deal does become a reality we will see cutbacks on everything from the weekly shop, to handbags, holidays, cars and other major purchases.”

With Brexit bringing so much uncertainty, the British public are keen to hear more about what may lie ahead from several groups. Chief amongst them are small businesses, farmers, manufacturers, exporters and NHS staff. Leavers in particular want to know more about the effect on fishing.
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  #13110  
Old 27.08.2018, 20:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Arghhh those arch liberal socialists at KPMG are scare mongering, again:


Explaining the findings James Stewart, Head of Brexit at KPMG UK said: “This survey shows the public expect a ‘no deal’ Brexit and plan to spend accordingly. The results reveal how people are anticipating substantial disruption in the short to medium-term, before they expect Brexit to have a more positive effect on the economy in the medium to long term. During this period of disruption Brits expect prices to go up, delays at airports and sea ports, plus a potential hit to the pound. The mood music of the Brexit talks is likely to have a direct effect on consumer confidence.”

In terms of behavioural change in the event of a ‘no deal’ Brexit:

43% of the public said they were very likely or likely to cut everyday spending.
45% of the public said they were very likely or likely to cut non-essential spending.
48% of the public said they were very likely or likely to cut luxury spending.
47% of the public said they were very likely or likely to delay major purchases.

The people most likely to alter their consumer behaviour in the event of 'No Deal' (from stockpiling food to cutting essential spending) are: those with concerns about prices rising as a consequence of 'No Deal', those under 35 and those who are female.

Explaining how these findings could affect the retail industry, Paul Martin, Head of Retail at KPMG UK said: “Too few businesses have fully considered how consumer buying patterns may change if a no-deal scenario were to occur. We often find companies stockpiling inventory to mitigate potential customs delays without calculating how a squeeze on liquidity or a reduction in discretionary spend could affect their cashflow. Consumers, especially those of working age, are genuinely worried about price increases and travel delays and if no deal does become a reality we will see cutbacks on everything from the weekly shop, to handbags, holidays, cars and other major purchases.”

With Brexit bringing so much uncertainty, the British public are keen to hear more about what may lie ahead from several groups. Chief amongst them are small businesses, farmers, manufacturers, exporters and NHS staff. Leavers in particular want to know more about the effect on fishing.
Whats that saying is the Majority won't change their habits, the percentage is almost identical to people who voted remain which I find fascinating.
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  #13111  
Old 27.08.2018, 20:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

It is indeed - who would have thunked it ...

the intelligent, informed, well educated people are concerned about post Brexit and their spending - amazing, that
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  #13112  
Old 27.08.2018, 20:27
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It is indeed - who would have thunked it ...

the intelligent, informed, well educated people are concerned about post Brexit and their spending - amazing, that
What it's saying is peoples minds have probably not changed on average. A second referendum will give the same result.

Since 73% of people in the UK have less than £1000 in savings, average debt tops £8000 excluding mortgages. So much for educated people managing their spending in a sensible manner.
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  #13113  
Old 27.08.2018, 20:36
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Whats that saying is the Majority won't change their habits, the percentage is almost identical to people who voted remain which I find fascinating.
You are confusing two things. The percentage of the electorate that voted, and the percentage of ‘the people’.

The 17.5 million that voted leave were only about 26% of the people.
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  #13114  
Old 27.08.2018, 21:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Precisely the reason it shouldn't have gone to a referendum in the first place.

Sticking an arbitrary "YES" or "NO" option in front of the population is a damning indictment that the government was clueless from the very beginning and never seriously considered a "NO" vote.

Project Leave saw an opportunity for a power grab at any cost and the rest is history.
Of course it was correct it went to referendum. Or should the UK never have had the option of leaving the EU ever? Do you think the same about the Scottish Independence referendum?

The first referendum was straightforward and binary, Leave or Remain. Any referendum on whatever deal won't be so simple. Can you imagine it? "Do you accept the deal negotiated by her Majesty's Government for exiting the European Union?"
  • Yes
  • No
  • If No shall we...?
    1. Leave with no deal
    2. Return to negotiations
    3. Change our negotiating guidelines
    4. ...

The list is endless, and this is even before the EU have had their say.
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  #13115  
Old 27.08.2018, 22:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So much for educated people managing their spending in a sensible manner.

I know, Rees-Mogg would agree- the plebs- not inheriting houses, money and marrying rich girls with houses and money - how absolutely awwwful, darling
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  #13116  
Old 27.08.2018, 22:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I know, Rees-Mogg would agree- the plebs- not inheriting houses, money and marrying rich girls with houses and money - how absolutely awwwful, darling
I don't know who your talking about, I have not inherited anything let alone a house, my wife's wealth is way less than mine. I think I detect a touch of jealousy from someone who feels hard done by in some way. Perhaps realising that I could not afford children was the lightbulb moment 30 years ago.
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Old 27.08.2018, 22:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You can have a second vote, but then don't complain when people call for a third one if they don't get the result they want.

The EU do this all the time btw.
When have the EU done this?
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  #13118  
Old 27.08.2018, 23:01
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

I'm absolutely gutted when I read articles about poor children going hungry over the summer as school lunch is sometimes their only meal.
This in a developped brilliant 1rst world country.
How will the poorer vulnerable people manage if food prices go up?

Last edited by Sky; 28.08.2018 at 00:48.
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  #13119  
Old 27.08.2018, 23:15
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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No, I was referring to the Swiss culture of moving on and accepting a referendum result. They don't howl here for two years and demand a second vote because they didn't like the outcome of the first.

If we take the example of Swiss entering EU, there have been a number of votes, but there have been breaks of several years between them with the last being in 2001. Perhaps it's high time all you EU luvvies demand Switzerland has another chance to enter into Elysium .
Chronology of Swiss votes about the European Union:

3 December 1972: free trade agreement with the European Communities is approved by 72.5% of voters
6 December 1992: joining the European Economic Area is rejected by 50.3% of voters. This vote strongly highlighted the cultural divide between the German- and the French-speaking cantons, the Röstigraben. The only German-speaking cantons voting for the EEA were Basel-Stadt and Basel-Landschaft, which border on France and Germany.
8 June 1997: the federal popular initiative "negotiations concerning EU membership: let the people decide!" on requiring the approval of a referendum and the Cantons to launch accession negotiations with the EU (« Négociations d'adhésion à l'UE : que le peuple décide ! ») is rejected by 74.1% of voters.
21 May 2000: the Bilateral agreements with the EU are accepted by 67.2% of voters.
4 March 2001: the federal popular initiative "yes to Europe!" (« Oui à l'Europe ! ») on opening accession negotiations with the EU is rejected by 76.8% of voters.
5 June 2005: the Schengen Agreement and the Dublin Regulation are approved by 54.6% of voters.
25 September 2005: the extension of the free movement of persons to the ten new members of the European Union is accepted by 56.0% of voters.
26 November 2006: a cohesion contribution of one billion for the ten new member states of the European Union (Eastern Europe Cooperation Act) is approved by 53.4% of voters.
8 February 2009: the extension of the free movement of persons to new EU members Bulgaria and Romania is approved by 59.61% of voters.
17 May 2009: introduction of biometric passports, as required by the Schengen acquis, is approved by 50.15% of voters.
17 June 2012: the federal popular initiative "international agreements: let the people speak!" (« Accords internationaux : la parole au peuple ! ») on requiring all international treaties to be approved in a referendum launched by the Campaign for an Independent and Neutral Switzerland is rejected by 75.3% of voters.
9 February 2014: the federal popular initiative "against mass immigration", which would limit the free movement of people from EU member states, is accepted by 50.3% of voters.

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  #13120  
Old 27.08.2018, 23:24
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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When have the EU done this?
The EU have a history of not accepting referenda:

Denmark - Maastricht Treaty, second vote
Ireland - Nice Treaty, second vote
France, Netherlands - EU Constitution, ignored
Ireland - Lisbon Treaty, second vote
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