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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #13201  
Old 03.09.2018, 08:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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They don't. There was a vote on it, remember?
Excepting recent polls are pointing strongly in the other direction. In particular if there is to be a hard Brexit.
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  #13202  
Old 03.09.2018, 08:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Excepting recent polls are pointing strongly in the other direction. In particular if there is to be a hard Brexit.
I remember polls were saying that the Tories were going to win by a landslide at the last election as well as saying that the UK was certain to remain in the EU.
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  #13203  
Old 03.09.2018, 08:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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They don't. There was a vote on it, remember?
Less than a third of the people (about a third of all voters) voted for Brexit. Overwhelming.

By your reckoning, the British people want a Labour government (well maybe that's not so far off), as they voted on this in 2005, remember? So how come there's been a Conservative government ever since 2010? Oh yeah, the people were asked their opinion again and, would you believe it, with the passage of time and new information available, they changed their mind!

Extraordinary stuff. And you know what, if they change their mind again at the next general election, the government will change again. So what makes you think that the Brexit question is so special that democratic conventions shouldn't be applied to resolve it?
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  #13204  
Old 03.09.2018, 09:26
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I remember polls were saying that the Tories were going to win by a landslide at the last election as well as saying that the UK was certain to remain in the EU.
The irony of people who are bleating that there shouldn't be a second EU referendum because it subverts democracy then can't see the huge ragged hole they blow in their own point of view because they forget that the PM called for a vanity snap election barely TWO years after the scheduled General Election.

Or is everyone worried that a second EU referendum would blow up in their faces like the snap election did?
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  #13205  
Old 03.09.2018, 09:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I remember polls were saying that the Tories were going to win by a landslide at the last election as well as saying that the UK was certain to remain in the EU.
Final polls on the referendum were close to 50:50 so the result was (just) within the margin of error. Similar story on the election, the polls closed up as the campaign progressed.

Last poll I saw on Brexit indicated 60:40 against no-deal. Well above the margin for error.
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  #13206  
Old 03.09.2018, 10:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The irony of people who are bleating that there shouldn't be a second EU referendum because it subverts democracy then can't see the huge ragged hole they blow in their own point of view because they forget that the PM called for a vanity snap election barely TWO years after the scheduled General Election.

Or is everyone worried that a second EU referendum would blow up in their faces like the snap election did?
You are making the incorrect assumption that the people against it are against it for reasons of logic, rather than reasons of fear.
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  #13207  
Old 03.09.2018, 10:28
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Final polls on the referendum were close to 50:50 so the result was (just) within the margin of error. Similar story on the election, the polls closed up as the campaign progressed.

Last poll I saw on Brexit indicated 60:40 against no-deal. Well above the margin for error.
Last poll I saw on Brexit indicated the UK would vote the same way:



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Less than a third of the people (about a third of all voters) voted for Brexit. Overwhelming.

By your reckoning, the British people want a Labour government (well maybe that's not so far off), as they voted on this in 2005, remember? So how come there's been a Conservative government ever since 2010? Oh yeah, the people were asked their opinion again and, would you believe it, with the passage of time and new information available, they changed their mind!

Extraordinary stuff. And you know what, if they change their mind again at the next general election, the government will change again. So what makes you think that the Brexit question is so special that democratic conventions shouldn't be applied to resolve it?
Imagine comparing general elections to a referendum.

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The irony of people who are bleating that there shouldn't be a second EU referendum because it subverts democracy then can't see the huge ragged hole they blow in their own point of view because they forget that the PM called for a vanity snap election barely TWO years after the scheduled General Election.

Or is everyone worried that a second EU referendum would blow up in their faces like the snap election did?
I'm all for a second vote. The Remainer tears when the UK votes in the same way would be too good for words. And as I've said before, in the worst case we could just ignore the result, which is what the Remainers want to do now.
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  #13208  
Old 03.09.2018, 10:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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And that is exactly the problem there is no provision in the treaty to allow for its withdrawal nor for the council of ministers to accept such a withdrawal. This will come down to a decision of the ECJ and I have yet to read a ruling from them that came down on the side of the absence of a provision being a provision. The EU is very much a rule base organization at the end of the day.
Well there is always a first time for the ECJ, if it actually gets to them. The ECJ cannot decide to rule on this question themselves. A national court would have to request that of them and that too is unlikely (IMHO).

A likely ruling from the ECJ could simply be an instruction to the Commission that as the treaty is unclear on this point, efforts should be made to make it clear. Probably would take 10 years or more for that to happen.

If I apply for Swiss Nationality and change my mind two years later, I don't have to get court, or Federal, or Cantonal, or Communal approval to do so. In theory everyone just files the papers in the bin, and then sends you a bill.
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  #13209  
Old 03.09.2018, 10:38
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Last poll I saw on Brexit indicated the UK would vote the same way:



Imagine comparing general elections to a referendum.

I'm all for a second vote. The Remainer tears when the UK votes in the same way would be too good for words. And as I've said before, in the worst case we could just ignore the result, which is what the Remainers want to do now.
Ah, a poll from The Sun - no doubt of their readers who are known to be a good objective source of information
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  #13210  
Old 03.09.2018, 10:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Ah, a poll from The Sun - no doubt of their readers who are known to be a good objective source of information
Still leaving
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  #13211  
Old 03.09.2018, 10:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Final polls on the referendum were close to 50:50 so the result was (just) within the margin of error. Similar story on the election, the polls closed up as the campaign progressed.

Last poll I saw on Brexit indicated 60:40 against no-deal. Well above the margin for error.
Not 'just' error' - proven fraud.
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  #13212  
Old 03.09.2018, 10:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I'm all for a second vote. The Remainer tears when the UK votes in the same way would be too good for words. And as I've said before, in the worst case we could just ignore the result, which is what the Remainers want to do now.

Well then it would be conclusive - whichever way. If people still voted for a bad deal or no deal- then we would know it is time to forget about the UK, get our foot out of there, as will 1000s of skilled workers, NHS staff, businesses - anyone with half a brain. Our adult kids and grandkids will move here - and other young relatives with great job and prospects too. At least we would know- that it is time to let the UK sink (later correction) into oblivion- with great sadness and regrets - but tough.

Have you got a poll from the Daily Mail too?

Last edited by Odile; 03.09.2018 at 11:16.
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  #13213  
Old 03.09.2018, 10:49
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Still leaving
Which do you find more edifying...actually leaving the EU despite the growing body of evidence of the harm it will do to the UK, or seeing Remainers upset?

(You don't need to answer this, we all know the answer).
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Old 03.09.2018, 10:52
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Well then it would be conclusive - whichever way. If people still voted for a bad deal or no deal- then we would know it is time to forget about the UK, get our foot out of there, as will 1000s of skilled workers, NHS staff, businesses - anyone with half a brain. Our adult kids and grandkids will move here - and other young relatives with great job and prospects too. At least we would know- that it is time to let the UK sinks into oblivion- with great sadness and regrets - but tough.
"Sinks into oblivion"
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  #13215  
Old 03.09.2018, 10:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Imagine comparing general elections to a referendum.
I was comparing the double standards in people bleating about democracy. The reason for voting is immaterial in this case.

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I'm all for a second vote. The Remainer tears when the UK votes in the same way would be too good for words. And as I've said before, in the worst case we could just ignore the result, which is what the Remainers want to do now.
Well, then at least we'll know that the referendum was done on a more even playing field and the voting public would have voted based on a fuller base of information.

The only regret (or "tears" as the more hysterical among us like to call it) is that the original referendum was a total scam. Another stab of irony for those so hellbent on seeing democracy played out. If you want democracy you can't hoodwink your electorate. Shame we have to point that out in a developed nation in the 21st century.
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  #13216  
Old 03.09.2018, 11:05
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Imagine comparing general elections to a referendum.
Sandgrounder has saved me the trouble. Here's my response:

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I was comparing the double standards in people bleating about democracy. The reason for voting is immaterial in this case.
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Old 03.09.2018, 11:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The only regret (or "tears" as the more hysterical among us like to call it) is that the original referendum was a total scam. Another stab of irony for those so hellbent on seeing democracy played out. If you want democracy you can't hoodwink your electorate. Shame we have to point that out in a developed nation in the 21st century.
Hoodwink the electorate? What like the emergency budget? Immediate recession? 3 million unemployed?

If there was a second referendum it would play out EXACTLY the same.
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  #13218  
Old 03.09.2018, 11:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"Sinks into oblivion"
Corrected, thank you, how kind to help me with my English. So, 10 years now- you must be totally fluent in German now, spoken and written, I hope.

Do you ever intend to go back? How will Brexit, bad deal, no deal - affect YOU personally, I wonder?
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  #13219  
Old 03.09.2018, 11:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Is that a poll from the Sun?!! Hahahahahaha.. how wonderful.

Cath's polls are better, more meat on the bones
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Old 03.09.2018, 11:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Hoodwink the electorate? What like the emergency budget? Immediate recession? 3 million unemployed?
You'll notice that I didn't distinguish which side was doing the hoodwinking. I think it has been mentioned many times on here that BOTH were full of shit, and now it's pretty common knowledge.

For the avoidance of doubt in the following pages - I am nearly always referring to BOTH sides of the campaign. Hope that clears it up for you...

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If there was a second referendum it would play out EXACTLY the same.
Yeah, people love being played for fools time and again.

Having said that, a second referendum which again votes for Brexit will safeguard the government in the years to come. If it turns out badly, there is always the comeback that "well, you had two chances, and the second time you had all of the information".
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