The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[lewton]

	Quote:
	And now, your viable solution for the Irish/NI border- please. Merci.

You can't ask Brexiteers to actually think, can you?

	Quote:	lewton
	You can't ask Brexiteers to actually think, can you?

It's only now that the true impact of Brexit is coming to the fore and nobody, not even the Remain side thought through ALL of the implications. Remain was weak in that it was just trying to discredit the Leave argument which, let's face it, was like shooting fish in a barrel. Boris? Farage? Gove? The famous bus? Hilarious clickbait and endless low-hanging fruit for satirists everywhere!

It was all easy pickings to ridicule and not much really went into forming a proper tactical opposition to it, at least on a voter-level. Yes, of course people could go hunting for the information themselves but I'm not sure most people did, preferring the served-on-a-plate Punch and Judy show as an entertaining but vacuous sideshow.

I remember watching a Question Time one night a few weeks before the referendum and that was the only time I can remember hearing about the Irish border and possible consequences but that was only fleeting and got drowned out by the more juicy subjects, those tasty nuggets which kept the papers and their readership foaming at the mouth.

	Quote:	lewton
	You can't ask Brexiteers to actually think, can you?

Well we can but hope - however the question was asked twice - and it seems they have no answer whatsoever. A bit like Mrs May on Andrew Marr on Sunday morning.

The United Kingdom could unilaterally decide to leave the border open.

The ball would then be in the EU's court.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:
	The United Kingdom could unilaterally decide to leave the border open. The ball would then be in the EU's court.

Well I suppose they could if they have no intention of ever signing a trade deal with anyone other than the island nations that are not members of the WTO. This point has been discussed death at this stage.

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Well I suppose they could if they have no intention of ever signing a trade deal with anyone other than the island nations that are not members of the WTO. This point has been discussed death at this stage.

Hey, I'm just a primary school teacher. If you want statesmanlike solutions, ask a statesman.

If only we had any...

[bowlie]

	Quote:
	The United Kingdom could unilaterally decide to leave the border open. The ball would then be in the EU's court.

To protect the single market expect the EU to begin controlling it, for goods. Many tariff/quota free goods will become restricted on 31 March.

As long as the visa policies of the two are mostly aligned they likely won't need to do more than spot checks for people. (much like intra-schengen borders). But this will become a smuggling route both ways.

The French could simply move the Calais people to Dublin and rid themselves of a problem. The Irish would simply step back and let them travel to N. Ireland and on to GB.

Of course that wouldn't happen if EU/UK are still talking nicey, nicey. If/when that ends who knows?

[DanLF]

	Quote:	BaselLife
	hi, I try to remain and optimist and the national interest will be put ahead of right wing politics and that Brexit will not occur. At the moment the best solution would be to remain or at least stay an EEA country. If a second vote is the way to kill Brexit I am all in favour it. Since the referendum I am embarrassed to say I am British and feel even more European. Martin

I think this is the main impact for a lot of us living here. When family or work colleagues ask about how Brexit is going it's often something to poke fun about, and it's quite embarrassing how the whole thing has been handled.

I don't even try to defend it, I just laugh along while internally being quite annoyed.

	Quote:	bowlie
	The French could simply move the Calais people to Dublin and rid themselves of a problem. The Irish would simply step back and let them travel to N. Ireland and on to GB.

Theresa May and some cabinet members actually went to visit recently to see the conditions in Calais...

"It's an appalling tragedy to see people with no hope, and no future and no clue where they will be in a week, never mind 6 months or a year", said Asim, aged 7.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:
	The United Kingdom could unilaterally decide to leave the border open. The ball would then be in the EU's court.

At the same time exports will be faced with tariffs according to WTO default. That combination would almost certainly destroy what's left of the domestic industry, farming, and fishery. Say hello to a surge in joblessness.

And of course there's the not-so-small problem with ensuring product quality, levying customs fees, VAT, and whatever else needs to happen. Say hello to an increased budget deficit and more austerity on the "small" people's shoulders.

	Quote:	bowlie
	The French could simply move the Calais people to Dublin and rid themselves of a problem. The Irish would simply step back and let them travel to N. Ireland and on to GB.

The Swiss Government has bought premises in the middle of nowhere near here, up in the mountains where there is absolutely nothing to do for young people (apart from sport) and are busy preparing the site. To put all the difficult, undisciplined borderline dangerous Asylum Seekers, from all the other AS centres in CH - so so very close to the border ...

and I am sure this is the thinking behind it - they will be over the fields and into France in 10 minutes - and on their way to Calais - end of story for Swiss GVT.

In the meantime- the Conference is going well - with auditorium 2/3rd empty- Nice venue though the ICC in Brum:

The foundation stone was laid by Jacques Delors as a start of another 4 years and 5 months of construction. In all, over 1,500 workers helped construct the building. Over 60,000 cubic metres of concrete were used. The site was opened on 12 June 1991 by Queen Elizabeth II. Funds of £49.7 million were provided by the European Council. The total cost of construction was £200 million, majority being paid by EU.

Couldn't make it up.

	Quote:
	The Swiss Government has bought premises in the middle of nowhere near here, up in the mountains where there is absolutely nothing to do for young people (apart from sport) and are busy preparing the site. To put all the difficult, undisciplined borderline dangerous Asylum Seekers, from all the other AS centres in CH - so so very close to the border ... and I am sure this is the thinking behind it - they will be over the fields and into France in 10 minutes - and on their way to Calais - end of story for Swiss GVT. In the meantime- the Conference is going well - with auditorium 2/3rd empty- Nice venue though the ICC in Brum: The foundation stone was laid by Jacques Delors as a start of another 4 years and 5 months of construction. In all, over 1,500 workers helped construct the building. Over 60,000 cubic metres of concrete were used. The site was opened on 12 June 1991 by Queen Elizabeth II. Funds of £49.7 million were provided by the European Council. The total cost of construction was £200 million, majority being paid by EU. Couldn't make it up.

The EU didn't exist in June 1991.

[grumpygrapefruit]

The only solution I can see to the NI border would be to keep it open but make companies exporting from one side to the other to be responsible via their import/export agents to ensure that all paperwork is correct for later billing for VAT and Duty. And for there to be plenty of random spot checks with significant fines for companies (and their agents) flouting the rules.

I just can't see how they could man every border crossing otherwise. The whole question does remind me of Spike Milligans story about the old closed border when one day an old labourer walked through a crossing, wishing a "top o' the morning" to the border guards pushing a wheel barrow full of sand. He did the same the next morning but the third morning the guards wanted to know what he was smuggling in the sand so they made him empty the barrow.

They found nothing but he continued every morning, and once or twice a week they would do a random check but they never found anything. It took them some months to realise wheel barrows were more expensive in the north than the south.

	Quote:	grumpygrapefruit
	And for there to be plenty of random spot checks with significant fines for companies (and their agents) flouting the rules.

Unfortunately, whilst this is a nice idea, the random checks would violate the GFA, so it's back to square one I think.

[bowlie]

	Quote:
	Unfortunately, whilst this is a nice idea, the random checks would violate the GFA, so it's back to square one I think.

The EU is not bound by the GFA. Ireland is. The choice to IE is to have the border between them and NI or between them and the Rest of EU. Dilemma (another 1 of thousands).

So the NI/IE border will be manned by EU nationals from other Member States. Dilemma solved (but creates four more)

[st2lemans]

	Quote:
	Couldn't make it up.

You just did.

Tom

[st2lemans]

	Quote:	grumpygrapefruit
	The only solution I can see to the NI border would be to keep it open but make companies exporting from one side to the other to be responsible via their import/export agents to ensure that all paperwork is correct for later billing for VAT and Duty. And for there to be plenty of random spot checks with significant fines for companies (and their agents) flouting the rules.

So, like here then.

Tom

[grumpygrapefruit]

	Quote:	st2lemans
	So, like here then. Tom

Er no actually. When you import things commercially (from the UK to CH), you need transit documents and to queue (in my case it was Dover for an hour and then Basel for an hour or 2) to have all paperwork done. Yes, the bill for duty and MwsT did come later, but there are thousands of people employed at the borders to process the paperwork, and sometimes to do a spot check.

	Quote:	bowlie
	The EU is not bound by the GFA. Ireland is. The choice to IE is to have the border between them and NI or between them and the Rest of EU. Dilemma (another 1 of thousands). So the NI/IE border will be manned by EU nationals from other Member States. Dilemma solved (but creates four more)

Why bring the EU into this discussion? The GFA is very much between the UK and Ireland. The GFA precludes any physical border or checks.

You also seem to forget that all Northern Irish citizens will continue to be EU citizens by birth (or better said, may choose to be, given that all may take Irish Passports) due to the GFA, so you are effectively penning in a group of EU citizens behind a border to the EU which they are a citizen of, which you promised them they would never have.

It's a mess.

[noittom]

Hello, does anybody know if there are any official documents about status of the UK passport holders after brexit?
Let's say I move to Switzerland now, assume I will get a job and hence B permit (as I understand it is jsut matter of submitting application for B permit if I have a contract). What will happen after brexit next year, will my B permit valid, possible to extend, for how long ?