The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[grumpygrapefruit]

	Quote:	noittom
	Hello, does anybody know if there are any official documents about status of the UK passport holders after brexit? Let's say I move to Switzerland now, assume I will get a job and hence B permit (as I understand it is jsut matter of submitting application for B permit if I have a contract). What will happen after brexit next year, will my B permit valid, possible to extend, for how long ?

Nobody knows.

[gaburko]

Find an Irish grand mother.

[lewton]

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	Hey, I'm just a primary school teacher. If you want statesmanlike solutions, ask a statesman. If only we had any...

Boris?

[Sandgrounder]

Have a rummage through this article and see if you fit with any of the nationalities. If you've got a few bob to spare you could become Maltese, for example...

[Dougal's Breakfast]

	Quote:	lewton
	Boris?

I don't think a Greek is in any position to mock any other country's politicians.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	I don't think a Greek is in any position to mock any other country's politicians.

Ah now, the Greeks only gave us one summer of entertainment, while the UK seem to be determined to give us much more....

[bowlie]

In all likelihood the rules applicable to British nationals, under the EU accords, will change to the rules applicable to non-EU nationals.

Not a great deal of difference to existing permit holders, but getting a permit the first time will be more difficult. You will be in the queue with the yanks, Ozzie’s, Kenyans, Japanese, etc.

[Tom1234]

	Quote:	bowlie
	In all likelihood the rules applicable to British nationals, under the EU accords, will change to the rules applicable to non-EU nationals. Not a great deal of difference to existing permit holders, but getting a permit the first time will be more difficult. You will be in the queue with the yanks, Ozzie’s, Kenyans, Japanese, etc.

Really? I'm under the impression that a new bi-lateral agreement will be drawn up and things will stay roughly the same as they are now.


But as Grumpy wrote: nobody knows...

[bowlie]

	Quote:	Tom1234
	Really? I'm under the impression that a new bi-lateral agreement will be drawn up and things will stay roughly the same as they are now

Should the EU/UK reach an agreement on movement of people then a bilateral will be necessary to extend that to Switzerland, it won’t automatically apply here. But HMG has already said that EU nationals will not have precedence over other nationals. Why would they seek preference for the Swiss over all other nationalities.

I see little benefit for the Swiss in such an arrangement. There are many more brits here than there are Swiss in the UK. And I can’t see the UDC agreeing to this easily.

The Brits have many other issues they would deal with first, so any agreement would take years to make in any case.

Hard or soft Brexit the UK’s existing agreements with CH become null and void on 31 March, exactly 180 days from now.

[Tom1234]

	Quote:	bowlie
	Should the EU/UK reach an agreement on movement of people then a bilateral will be necessary to extend that to Switzerland, it won’t automatically apply here. I see little benefit for the Swiss in such an arrangement. There are many more brits here than there are Swiss in the UK. And I can’t see the UDC agreeing to this easily.

The Swiss don't see it the same way as you:

The United Kingdom (UK) is an important partner for Switzerland. To date, the bilateral agreements with the European Union (EU) form the essential legal basis for relations between Switzerland and the UK. In anticipation of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU, Switzerland wishes to ensure that the existing mutual rights and obligations in its relationship with the UK will continue to apply after the UK leaves the EU and to develop these rights and obligations where necessary (Mind the Gap Strategy).

Relations between Switzerland and the United Kingdom are close and multifaceted. In 2016, the UK was Switzerland’s fifth most important export market (CHF 11.4 billion) and the eighth largest source of Switzerland’s imports (approx. CHF 6.4 billion). The UK is Switzerland’s sixth largest direct investor. Some 150 flights per day link Switzerland and the UK. 35,000 Swiss citizens live in the UK and 41,000 British citizens live in Switzerland.

From the horse's mouth

[bowlie]

Tom, I edited my post to point out that the UK’s position is that EU nationals will not have preference over any other nationals. Surly the quid pro quo will be that Switzerland will not give UK nationals preference over any non-EU nationals.

[dandi]

	Quote:	bowlie
	Tom, I edited my post to point out that the UK’s position is that EU nationals will not have preference over any other nationals. Surly the quid pro quo will be that Switzerland will not give UK nationals preference over any non-EU nationals.

Aaaa... what? Logic?

Switzerland is not in EU so whether UK applies any preference to EU citizens after Brexit doesn't matter, does it?.

Once the UK is out of EU, the relation between Switzerland an UK can take whatever form it wants, irrespective of either UK's or Switzerland relation to the EU. Switzerland can choose to allow preferential treatment to UK citizens, and so can UK. Neither would necessarily be linked to whatever treatment the EU citizens get from either UK or Switzerland...

[Odile]

	Quote:	gaburko
	Find an Irish grand mother.

https://www.facebook.com/TheIrishPos...7500737118452/

[MsWorWoo]

	Quote:	dandi
	Aaaa... what? Logic? Switzerland is not in EU so whether UK applies any preference to EU citizens after Brexit doesn't matter, does it?. Once the UK is out of EU, the relation between Switzerland an UK can take whatever form it wants, irrespective of either UK's or Switzerland relation to the EU. Switzerland can choose to allow preferential treatment to UK citizens, and so can UK. Neither would necessarily be linked to whatever treatment the EU citizens get from either UK or Switzerland...

Aaaaaa.... what? Logic?
Switzerland and the EU have a wealth of bilateral agreements, including Schengen, so the EU-UK relationship will effect the CH-UK relationship. Plus the UK ambassador to CH and LI has said that CH will most likely follow whatever the EU do (in the information evening).

And whilst the UK might be CHs 6th biggest trading partner (and I recall the ambassador saying that CH is the UKs 3rd), the EU is it’s 1st (and the UKs first), so the Swiss are unlikely to give preferencial treatment to the UK over the EU.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Tom1234
	Really? I'm under the impression that a new bi-lateral agreement will be drawn up and things will stay roughly the same as they are now. But as Grumpy wrote: nobody knows...

Given that the UK has decided not to give preference to Europeans going forward I think that is now unlikely. And this on top of the need to keep in line with EU free movement rules and not favor one third country over another.

[lewton]

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	I don't think a Greek is in any position to mock any other country's politicians.

I don't think a nickname on a forum is in any position to tell me who I am in a position to mock.

See what I did there?


PS. So you like Boris?

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Tom1234
	The Swiss don't see it the same way as you: The United Kingdom (UK) is an important partner for Switzerland. To date, the bilateral agreements with the European Union (EU) form the essential legal basis for relations between Switzerland and the UK. In anticipation of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU, Switzerland wishes to ensure that the existing mutual rights and obligations in its relationship with the UK will continue to apply after the UK leaves the EU and to develop these rights and obligations where necessary (Mind the Gap Strategy). Relations between Switzerland and the United Kingdom are close and multifaceted. In 2016, the UK was Switzerland’s fifth most important export market (CHF 11.4 billion) and the eighth largest source of Switzerland’s imports (approx. CHF 6.4 billion). The UK is Switzerland’s sixth largest direct investor. Some 150 flights per day link Switzerland and the UK. 35,000 Swiss citizens live in the UK and 41,000 British citizens live in Switzerland. From the horse's mouth

Would there be a referendum if there would be an agreement that is anywhere close to the current EU treaty?

[Tom1234]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Given that the UK has decided not to give preference to Europeans going forward I think that is now unlikely. And this on top of the need to keep in line with EU free movement rules and not favor one third country over another.

...which hasn't got much do with the effect on B-permit holders with U.K. passports - which was the original question.

In this respect, Switzerland may well keep it the same as it is now.

[bowlie]

No in 180 days the third country rules will apply to UK passport holders.

[bowlie]

	Quote:
	British seem to think the EU is quitting the UK: Juncker (Reuters) - The discussion in Britain over its departure from the European Union is still far removed from reality, the European Commission's President Jean-Claude Juncker said at a public forum in the German city of Freiburg. "Sometimes I have the impression that the British think that it's us quitting Great Britain, but it's exactly the other way around," he said to laughs from an audience of several thousand, adding that the British public had never properly been informed about the consequences of quitting the bloc. "There never was a real referendum campaign in Britain in the sense of an information campaign," he said when asked about the possibility of a second British vote on EU membership. "The British, including government ministers, are only now discovering how many questions it raises." "If talks (on air transport) go wrong, then no more British airplanes can land on the continent. People didn't know that, and they should probably have been told," he said. Juncker, a former Luxembourg prime minister, also said Brexit was "a question of the past" and that he wanted to deal with the future of the EU of 27 states. "We are right in the middle of these difficult Brexit negotiations and I am totally for finding a good way to cooperate with the Brits as friends," he added. "We need to keep this civil."

Have the Brits offered anything other than Chequers? Which both the Conservatives and the contend is unworkable