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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #13821  
Old 08.10.2018, 10:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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That's DB down pat!

Tom
Bring me my whelks, peasant!
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  #13822  
Old 08.10.2018, 10:26
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Agreed, with second paragraph - until you think about it. There are 10s of 1000s of British expats in the EU, 1.3 million actually- many of them will have no choice but to return to UK if they do not get right to stay or to work, unable to sell houses, with savings gone, no job, and in need of social housing, social care, health care (and retirees are VERY expensive ) - and more. Which would put a huge strain on above services and tax payer.

Not us- we have taken massive care in making sure that could not happen to us- but most are not in that situation (dual nationality and property in the UK), etc.
You takes your choice, you reaps its benefits and pays the price. They took a risk, trying to profit from the wealth difference, but it didn't work out. Such is life.

Besides, UK's old age population abroad is a far smaller percentage than you make it to be.

Oh and let me quote yourself. While it often makes sense to help soften the blow, I see no reason to apply the below to countries only. After all they're made up of people, ain't they.
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Exactly, for first paragraph- no cherry picking is the only way.
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  #13823  
Old 08.10.2018, 10:36
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Yes, but there also cannot be a common market without monetary transfers to the weaker states.
Because with today's improvements in efficiency, the only way to stay competitive for the weaker states is wage depression.
Assuming a common currency? Yes. It's been happening though since the beginning the question is what amounts are necessary.
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Is it the people's fault that the only things they associate with Europe are not having to exchange money when on holiday and not needing a passport when crossing a border by car (you still need one for flying)?
Yes, it's their choice to stay ignorant. There's no one else to blame for that. Ask DB.

And cue the far right shouting "indoctrination and abuse of power" as soon as the EU starts to actively inform the population on what they do in more detail.
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In Germany, there's a historical bias against public votes. That's fully understandable but OTOH, if you can't really trust your population to "do the right thing", you might as well call it quits and reinstate the Kaiser again, have the land rules by nobility and bureaucrats.
Would save a lot of expenses for the MPs at least.
Don't they have that already, kind of? Since 1982 (West-)Germany had only three Bundeskanzler, and the third is still in power.
  #13824  
Old 08.10.2018, 11:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Just another very personal and childish attack from FMF - you should be used to it by now, and see right through

I've put him on ignore - and then you go and copy his posts, grrr, lol

Talk about 'arguments or comments being tendentious and personal' ah.
Not true, if they were legally paying tax as residents all would be OK, clearly they were still paying tax in the UK as it's cheaper for them. Tax evaders your criminal friends
  #13825  
Old 08.10.2018, 11:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Yes, but there also cannot be a common market without monetary transfers to the weaker states.
Because with today's improvements in efficiency, the only way to stay competitive for the weaker states is wage depression.
The monetary transfers also imply a tax and social union that currently does not exist (and isn't on the horizon either - for the foreseeable future).

Is it the people's fault that the only things they associate with Europe are not having to exchange money when on holiday and not needing a passport when crossing a border by car (you still need one for flying)?
wage depression is not the only way to stay competitive.
There are also innovations, finding market niches, utilising natural resources (tourism, mining, forestry, hydroelectric power, unique crops).
  #13826  
Old 08.10.2018, 11:24
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Not true, if they were legally paying tax as residents all would be OK, clearly they were still paying tax in the UK as it's cheaper for them. Tax evaders your criminal friends
State pensions are generally taxable in the country paying them so no. Government service pensions are also only taxable in the country paying so if Odile's friends were teachers or doctors their pensions would only bear UK tax. Even otherwise, there are various perfectly legal mechanisms to mitigate the tax liability for other pensions, particularly when drawing the pension as a lump sum.

So please stop insulting people you don't know about arrangements you have no knowledge of that are in all probability perfectly legal.
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  #13827  
Old 08.10.2018, 11:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Exactly, for first paragraph- no cherry picking is the only way. You can't have a club of any sort where some members can negotiate better conditions for the same rules.

Agreed, with second paragraph - until you think about it. There are 10s of 1000s of British expats in the EU, 1.3 million actually- many of them will have no choice but to return to UK if they do not get right to stay or to work, unable to sell houses, with savings gone, no job, and in need of social housing, social care, health care (and retirees are VERY expensive ) - and more. Which would put a huge strain on above services and tax payer.

Not us- we have taken massive care in making sure that could not happen to us- but most are not in that situation (dual nationality and property in the UK), etc.
The UK are paying in full for expat retire's health care, if they return to the UK the costs will be unchanged, so no additional costs to the UK tax payer.

You clearly have forgotten who pays your health insurance with a 300 annual excess.
  #13828  
Old 08.10.2018, 11:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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State pensions are generally taxable in the country paying them so no. Government service pensions are also only taxable in the country paying so if Odile's friends were teachers or doctors their pensions would only bear UK tax. Even otherwise, there are various perfectly legal mechanisms to mitigate the tax liability for other pensions, particularly when drawing the pension as a lump sum.

So please stop insulting people you don't know about arrangements you have no knowledge of that are in all probability perfectly legal.
I don't believe teachers pensions fall under 'Government pensions'.

You still should register as a tax payer, in your new country of residence even if your liability is zero. France tax is world wide income so an investment income is taxable in France in Odile's friends' case.
  #13829  
Old 08.10.2018, 11:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I don't believe teachers pensions fall under 'Government pensions'.
.
I believe the UK Teacher Pension Scheme kind of is.
  #13830  
Old 08.10.2018, 11:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You takes your choice, you reaps its benefits and pays the price. They took a risk, trying to profit from the wealth difference, but it didn't work out. Such is life.

Besides, UK's old age population abroad is a far smaller percentage than you make it to be.
I don't think those stats give a full picture. Stats rarely do.

I know a cluster of old ladies (my best mate's nan is one of the group), who spend every winter in Spain and have been doing so for the last 20+yrs. They go out late September, come home for 2 weeks at Christmas, then go back to Spain til mid May.

Also, a lot of younger people move to Spain for health reasons. The dry, arid climate is beneficial to many ailments, arthritis being a notable one.

One final factor that would dispell the 'profit from the wealth difference' factor, many Brits can afford to buy a decent house in Spain, where they would struggle to afford one in SE UK. It's about having a better standard of life all round in Spain, as opposed to a hand to mouth existence, and beginning to hibernate for the winter at the first episode of The X Factor, as it is in the UK.
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  #13831  
Old 08.10.2018, 12:01
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Pension tax relief will be cut to pay for the NHS, Chancellor expected to announce

Source

That is not what the bus said
  #13832  
Old 08.10.2018, 12:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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State pensions are generally taxable in the country paying them so no. Government service pensions are also only taxable in the country paying so if Odile's friends were teachers or doctors their pensions would only bear UK tax. Even otherwise, there are various perfectly legal mechanisms to mitigate the tax liability for other pensions, particularly when drawing the pension as a lump sum.

So please stop insulting people you don't know about arrangements you have no knowledge of that are in all probability perfectly legal.
Yes, I was myself very surprised. We as 1 teacher and 1 doctor from UK, retirees in CH - pay taxes in Switzerland- whereas our friends with UK teachers, police, NHS, etc, In France- have to pay taxes in the UK, no choice there at all.
  #13833  
Old 08.10.2018, 12:06
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I believe the UK Teacher Pension Scheme kind of is.
Can you provide a link? Teachers & Dr's are not considered civil servants so would be surprised.

Army ones & civil servants YES, State pension NO.
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Yes, I was myself very surprised. We as 1 teacher and 1 doctor from UK, retirees in CH - pay taxes in Switzerland- whereas our friends with UK teachers, police, NHS, etc, In France- have to pay taxes in the UK, no choice there at all.
People in France have the RIGHT to have their Teachers & Dr's pensions taxed in France, they need to fill in a DT form.
https://assets.publishing.service.go...individual.pdf

For the OAP's living abroad elect UK taxation on state pension & pay zero tax due to UK tax free allowance & legally be a tax avoider
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  #13834  
Old 08.10.2018, 12:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Can you provide a link? Teachers & Dr's are not considered civil servants so would be surprised.

Army ones & civil servants YES, State pension NO.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collec...pension-scheme

www.teacherspensions.co.uk

State school employees are automatically enrolled.

It's not a private pension, that's for sure. Why would teachers have to be considered civil servants to qualify as government employees? My employer has been my county council, regardless of which state school I work in within that county. State = government, basically. Academies can obviously differ but most "buy" back in to County payroll and pension services, just as they maintain the centralised pay scales. Some don't and there be dragons, frankly.
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  #13835  
Old 08.10.2018, 12:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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https://www.gov.uk/government/collec...pension-scheme

www.teacherspensions.co.uk

State school employees are automatically enrolled.

It's not a private pension, that's for sure. Why would teachers have to be considered civil servants to qualify as government employees? My employer has been my county council, regardless of which state school I work in within that county. State = government, basically. Academies can obviously differ but most "buy" back in to County payroll and pension services, just as they maintain the centralised pay scales. Some don't and there be dragons, frankly.
It's not an Army or cilil servants pension so does not count as a 'Government Pension' only taxable in the UK.

Odile has claimed her teachers pension & husbands Dr's pension are taxable in CH, so clearly I am correct unless Odile is incorrect
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  #13836  
Old 08.10.2018, 12:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It's not an Army or cilil servants pension so does not count as a 'Government Pension' only taxable in the UK.

Odile has claimed her teachers pension & husbands Dr's pension are taxable in CH, so clearly I am correct unless Odile is incorrect
Different tax treaty, different rules. Odile is correct in both cases, in this case Odile and her OH being Swiss mean she pays tax in Switzerland.
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Old 08.10.2018, 12:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It's not an Army or cilil servants pension so does not count as a 'Government Pension' only taxable in the UK.

Odile has claimed her teachers pension & husbands Dr's pension are taxable in CH, so clearly I am correct unless Odile is incorrect

??? Why isn't it a government pension? Explain. Or do you mean "it might be a gov't pension but it's taxable elsewhere too?"

Teachers are public sector workers.

https://www.teacherspensions.co.uk/m...ng-abroad.aspx
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Old 08.10.2018, 13:02
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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??? Why isn't it a government pension? Explain. Or do you mean "it might be a gov't pension but it's taxable elsewhere too?"

Teachers are public sector workers.
It's a SPECIFIC definition by the Inland Revenue, you have to remember many companies such as British Airways, British Gas & British Telecom were Government controlled in the 1970's.

OAP's Teachers & Dr's pay do not fall under the legislation. Not sure about MP's but Army & Civil service do.

In general you have a choice of where a pension is taxable EXCEPT certain Government pensions defined in the legislation.
  #13839  
Old 08.10.2018, 13:06
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It's a SPECIFIC definition by the Inland Revenue, you have to remember many companies such as British Airways, British Gas & British Telecom were Government controlled in the 1970's.
Teaching in the UK has not been privatised. I don't see the link with British Gas to be honest. What is the specific IR definition?

Armed forces are public service workers.

The TPS is a gov't scheme AFAIK, TPS administrate on behalf of the Dept for Education: caused a furore when implemented, another one when moved from final salary to career average. It is however in addition to a state pension. Is that the confusion?

Last edited by RufusB; 08.10.2018 at 13:12. Reason: Clarification
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  #13840  
Old 08.10.2018, 13:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Different tax treaty, different rules. Odile is correct in both cases, in this case Odile and her OH being Swiss mean she pays tax in Switzerland.
This is incorrect, pensions only taxable in the UK under the legislation are not subject to the DT taxation rules so you don't have a choice to elect the taxation in that case.

Marton certainly has a UK pension taxable in the UK which he never historically declared to the Swiss, which was incorrect although no Swiss tax is payable on said pension.

Really interested to know where your info comes from, as I personally fill in the UK DT form every year I have some knowledge of the legislation.
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