The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Blueangel]

	Quote:
	'Are we prepared to tell lies, to spread hate and xenophobia just to win a campaign? For me that’s a step too far'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7090741.html

	Quote:
	Here. Refresh your memory. The NF were massive in Leicester in the seventies.

"Massive" in terms of noise maybe. Minimal in terms of actual political power. How many parliamentary or even council seats did they ever win in an election? Well they did once save their deposit I believe.

Even at their peak, 80% of Leicester DIDN'T vote for them

	Quote:
	... The city itself used to be a hotbed of NF activity. They've moved out to the suburbs now, but they haven't gone away.

Mostly joined UKIP these days.

	Quote:
	Nobody. They should go to source, like I did. Treaty of Rome, Maastricht, old speeches, declarations. Once you know what the EU is really about you can make a decision whether you want in or not.

So how are old speeches going to source? Surely they are just the speakers own desire or interpretation.

"Source" would only be the respective treaties and any decided law or legislation arising out of them. Nothing more.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:
	Mostly joined UKIP these days.

...via BNP.

My local branch of the BNP was so violent that they were rejected by the rest of the party.

Now cast your mind back to when Nick Griffin was elected as an MEP, then Farage, and the question we need to answer is...

"Why does such a lax voter turnout for European Parliament elections allow these creatures to slip in via the back door?"

	Quote:
	Mostly joined UKIP these days.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	...via BNP.

Between you, you just called 20% of the UK voting population racist. Well done.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Between you, you just called 20% of the UK voting population racist. Well done.

Nope. Just 20% of the 70s population of Leicester. Which according to the then election results and DB is about right.

[amogles]

	Quote:
	Here. Refresh your memory. The NF were massive in Leicester in the seventies. http://www.macearchive.org/Archive/T...ntry/1586.html

I think I should say to Odile's defence (imagine that ...) that it would be difficult to trace any directy continuity between the NF of the 1970s and the anti-immigration arm of UKIP of today. Fermenting on the same social dissatisfaction maybe, but not the same beast.

	Quote:	amogles
	Fermenting on the same social dissatisfaction maybe, but not the same beast.

Perhaps they were drunk on ambition? Fo' sure.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Between you, you just called 20% of the UK voting population racist. Well done.

Do me a favour... don't ever go into Law as your profession.

	Quote:
	supposition ˌsʌpəˈzɪʃ(ə)n/ noun noun: supposition; plural noun: suppositions a belief held without proof or certain knowledge; an assumption or hypothesis. "they were working on the supposition that his death was murder" synonyms:belief, surmise, idea, notion, suspicion, conjecture, speculation, view, inference, theory, thesis, hypothesis, postulation, guess, guesswork, feeling, hunch, assumption, presumption "there is a widespread supposition that there is nothing of any value in these techniques"

[Belgianmum]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Do me a favour... don't ever go into Law as your profession.

I just read that as suppositories. Mind you based on some of the cr*p being spouted on this thread maybe suppositories would be a good idea.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Do me a favour... don't ever go into Law as your profession.

Is that the same supposition that NF members mostly joined UKIP by way of the BNP?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Is that the same supposition that NF members mostly joined UKIP by way of the BNP?

If you want an honest answer to that question, do your own research. The names of members past and present, are freely available in the public domain.

One honest question please, as it doesn't seem to have been addressed. The City relocates to Frankfurt- ah well never mind some say. Japanese and other multinational car and other goods producers relocate elsewhere is large tarifs are slapped on UK goods and free movement of goos no longer possible- ah well, some will say.

But as Mrs Thatcher and later friends have sold out all the essential utilities, like electricity, gas and many more- what do we do when they decide to hike up prices massively? They got us totally over a barrel- as they know full well that GB would be totally unable to replace them for decades and more to come- especially as North Sea oil is getting low, and if Scotland decides to leave anyhow.

Candles out and freeze?

	Quote:
	Nope. Just 20% of the 70s population of Leicester. Which according to the then election results and DB is about right.

But still insignificant in political terms and as said, frittered out as the Ugandan Asians settled in well, improved parts of Leicester that were derelict, kids did so well at school and caused no problems whatsoever- and brought great wealth to the City. The large council Estate of Braunstone was possibly the only part of the City where the NF had any real influence. On the other side of the City, it was insignificant, even in the large council estates. I would have happily lived there, but not Brausntone! But that was then ... 35-40 years ago. How relevant is it to the current situation - and Braunstone is now quite nice, as it was in the past too.

[amogles]

	Quote:
	One honest question please, as it doesn't seem to have been addressed. The City relocates to Frankfurt- ah well never mind some say. Japanese and other multinational car and other goods producers relocate elsewhere is large tarifs are slapped on UK goods and free movement of goos no longer possible- ah well, some will say. But as Mrs Thatcher and later friends have sold out all the essential utilities, like electricity, gas and many more- what do we do when they decide to hike up prices massively? They got us totally over a barrel- as they know full well that GB would be totally unable to replace them for decades and more to come- especially as North Sea oil is getting low, and if Scotland decides to leave anyhow. Candles out and freeze?

For somebody living in Switzerland you only need to look around you. Look how Zürich coped when all the banks relocated to Frankfurt. Look at how people have stopped byuing new cars due to the massive tarriffs. And let's not mention how the lights went out when Switzerland's oil wells ran dry.

Meanwhile countries like Greece and Spain are facing the economic crunch. I bet they wished that they were inside the EU rather than outside.

	Quote:
	For somebody living in Switzerland you only need to look around you. Look how Zürich coped when all the banks relocated to Frankfurt. Look at how people have stopped byuing new cars due to the massive tarriffs. And let's not mention how the lights went out when Switzerland's oil wells ran dry.

Maybe why Switzerland joined the single market and pays (and accepts free people movement) accrdingly? An option that is probably not going to be available to the UK given the Exiters don't want it and the rest of the EU probably won't offer it.

amogles I probably missed a trick here, but do educate me- could you give me a list of foreign companies that own, manage and sell essential utilities to Switzerland, like electricity, gas, water? Thanks.

Most of those in the UK were sold to, and run by French, German and other foreign companies- and therefore have a massive hold on the UK.

[amogles]

	Quote:
	Maybe why Switzerland joined the single market and pays (and accepts free people movement) accrdingly? An option that is probably not going to be available to the UK given the Exiters don't want it and the rest of the EU probably won't offer it.

To assume that the rest of the EU is going to retaliate by not negotiating any trade deals and by slapping massive tarriffs on everything is an extreme scenario which the remainers are trying to sell as the only possible scenario.

Do you honestly think the lobbyists of Mercedes and BMW and the likes of Lidl and Aldi are going to look on without action as their government votes in retaliatory tarrifs?

[Sbrinz]

The displays of hate and ignorance in the UK have bothered me lately.

Parliament will have to change many laws before an exit from the EU can be achieved, and my hope is that parliament will refuse to back the referendum (and not make the new laws) and instead call for a general election.

To force a new election would require two thirds (407 MPs) agreeing, and there are now 464 MPs in the remain camp, and only 150 MPs who are backing Brexit, so it would be easy to get a proper election and try to calm everyone down.Then the campaigning could be started on a sensible footing.

Another thought is that any new laws from the House of Commons must be approved by the House of Lords, and also rubber stamped by HM Queen. I cannot see that happening either, though 'Liz and Phill the Greek are rumoured as leaning towards an exit from the EU.

It will be a sad outcome if a Brexit does arrive, as in the short term the bottom classes will be hit hard, & the rich of course will be able to throw money at any minor problem, like increased cost of daily living.

[amogles]

	Quote:
	amogles I probably missed a trick here, but do educate me- could you give me a list of foreign companies that own, manage and sell essential utilities to Switzerland, like electricity, gas, water? Thanks. Most of those in the UK were sold to, and run by French, German and other foreign companies- and therefore have a massive hold on the UK.

Where do you think your cheap Swiss electricity comes from? Those big massive cable lines that cross the borders from France and Germany. Are you so so sure they're never ever used? And what about oil and gas?

And as for the foreign companies that control thinkgs like water in Britain. You do realize it is just the management that is foreign? The water still mostly comes from British sources. So where exactly do you expect a foreign government to slap on massive tarriffs?