The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	lewton
	Is anybody else excited about May potentially getting the chop this week?

Personally, excited would be the wrong word. I'm wary...but I'm always wary of any action that has the potential to create a power vacuum. You've always got to be careful of what gets sucked into such a vacuum.

Don't be surprised if Barnier pulls a proverbial rabbit out of the hat and (effectively) saves her. He's meeting with Brexiteers today. If he gets a whiff of what their end game is, and finds it to be detrimental to the EU, I reckon he'll be able to swing things May's way.

	Quote:	MusicChick
	I don't read him that way. Maybe a chip with know-it-alls who don't happen to know it all.

And I don't read Odile as a know-it-all. There are many things that I disagree with Odile on, but I've never seen her the way she is portrayed by many here. I admire her dogged determination in the face of ritualistic abuse here, even when I disagree with the point she's making.

It's a peculiar mindset when someone's profession is repeatedly used to damn their life experience and opinions. It's perverse when only teachers from the opposite side of the political divide are damned for their profession. I find it akin to the diabolical implication that only older people voted to leave, which is solely based upon skewed statistics.

And just for the record, one of the most intellectual people I've ever known couldn't read and write until he was in his 30s, but he had a great analytical mind, was succinct in his opinions, and very emotionally intelligent. He had the unique ability to sit and listen to a debate, sum it all up in one sentence, and make both sides feel totally inadequate with his verdict. When he spoke, everybody listened and everybody acknowledged his wisdom.

[lewton]

	Quote:	Odile
	No, because there is no-one of calibre to take over, and she is actually the best of a terribly bad bunch.

But imagine all the drama if Boris took over!

[StirB]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	And just for the record, one of the most intellectual people I've ever known couldn't read and write until he was in his 30s, but he had a great analytical mind, was succinct in his opinions, and very emotionally intelligent. He had the unique ability to sit and listen to a debate, sum it all up in one sentence, and make both sides feel totally inadequate with his verdict. When he spoke, everybody listened and everybody acknowledged his wisdom.

That's not hugely surprising - this thread alone shows (presumably) millionaire retirees who can neither write decent English nor punctuate to save their lives. Takes all sorts, dunnit?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	So accept the deal or hard BREXIT, or do you mean cancel BREXIT which is clearly a second referendum.

Just for the record, and purely my opinion, yes, I would cancel Brexit in a heartbeat. Yes, I would re-run the referendum in light of the current facts, and with many of the main players now absent from politics...quelle surprise The original debates and ballot were flawed in so many ways that I wouldn't risk anything on such loose 'information', nevermind the economic future of an entire nation.

As Martin Lewis has repeatedly said, anyone who tells you what things will be like financially after Brexit with any certainty, is lying. Nobody knows.

	Quote:	lewton
	Sorry if there is a vote on freedom of movement coming up that did not pop up in my news streams.

This might go a way to explaining the current state of affairs...

https://www.eda.admin.ch/missions/mi...t-persons.html

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	StirB
	That's not hugely surprising - this thread alone shows (presumably) millionaire retirees who can neither write decent English nor punctuate to save their lives. Takes all sorts, dunnit?

Perhaps they became millionaires by looking at the big picture, rather than obsessively dotting i's & crossing t's & then worrying what people might think if they spelled something wrong or left out a comma. Clearly the complexities of BREXIT is an impossibility to understand to those people.

It does indeed take all sorts.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	As Martin Lewis has repeatedly said, anyone who tells you what things will be like financially after Brexit with any certainty, is lying. Nobody knows.

Financial commentary is always nonsense as Martin Lewis should well know.
Far better to concentrate on great business's that have survived far worse things such as Prohibition when your only product was Jack Daniels. Some business's will always have problems Banks, Airlines & Car Manufactures. They always destroy share holder value so no need to make life easy for them, as you get too many bad business's competing with each other.

[StirB]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Perhaps they became millionaires by looking at the big picture, rather than obsessively dotting i's & crossing t's & then worrying what people might think if they spelled something wrong or left out a comma. Clearly the complexities of BREXIT is an impossibility to understand to those people. It does indeed take all sorts.

Bit too much projection there for my liking.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Far better to concentrate on great business's that have survived far worse things such as Prohibition when your only product was Jack Daniels. Some business's.

You're doing it deliberately now, aren't you?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	StirB
	Bit too much projection there for my liking. You're doing it deliberately now, aren't you?

Dyslexics think differently get over it.
GCHQ & FBI employ a huge no of dyslexics for a good reason.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ack-codes.html
https://thecodpast.org/2016/01/why-d...secret-agents/

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Dyslexics think differently get over it. GCHQ & FBI employ a huge no of dyslexics for a good reason. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ack-codes.html https://thecodpast.org/2016/01/why-d...secret-agents/

As codebreakers if Wiki is to be believed. Don't know how this gives them a better understanding of Brexit.

[StirB]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	As codebreakers if Wiki is to be believed. Don't know how this gives them a better understanding of Brexit.

It doesn't, but it is at least a fallback if the greengrocing doesn't work out.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	As codebreakers if Wiki is to be believed. Don't know how this gives them a better understanding of Brexit.

It's not seeing it as an issue, just another problem to work around.

Amusingly you choose to live in a non EU country, oh the irony of most of the anti BREXIT posters here.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	It's not seeing it as an issue, just another problem to work around.

To be fair you don't need to be a dyslexic codebreaker to see that it's a "problem to work around". I think most people are on the same page on that.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Amusingly you choose to live in a non EU country, oh the irony of most of the anti BREXIT posters here.

Well the choice wasn't entirely mine and I did move here long before BREXIT was even a twinkle in Cameron's eye. So I guess it's less ironic/amusing and more irrelevant?

[Odile]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Dyslexics think differently get over it. GCHQ & FBI employ a huge no of dyslexics for a good reason.

and here, I totally agree with you. Some of the students I am still in touch with, after all those years, are dyslexics- and say I was the only one to really see their potential and find ways to support them. They have all done really well, in their own inimitable way.

This weekend I had a young Portuguese man who lives in Valais, for a residential English course (on an exchange basis- he is an excellent masseur and carpenter) - and he said he learnt more in 1.5 days than he has done in all his school years in CH. He can't write in French, or in Portuguese- and of course not in English- but he went home happy and confident to communicate orally, and not panic when spoken to in English - and really keen to continue. Being a teacher is wonderful, when you can unblock fears and let people express themselves - and he unblocked my shoulder and shoulderblade, which had been stuck for months. Win, win. But we digress.

And yes, for many, the choice of Switzerland was made for us, for work, for love, for family reasons ... and a long time before Cameron had his brain fart.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	To be fair you don't need to be a dyslexic codebreaker to see that it's a "problem to work around". I think most people are on the same page on that. Well the choice wasn't entirely mine and I did move here long before BREXIT was even a twinkle in Cameron's eye. So I guess it's less ironic/amusing and more irrelevant?

Switzerland has always been a non EU country, so no idea why you're so confused.

Clearly you never heard of the referendum party 1994-1997.Terry Smith my favourite fund manager was a Eurosceptic & stood as a candidate for West Chelmsford in 1997.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendum_Party
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efs5lwUMy4o
https://portfolio-adviser.com/vote-brexit-terry-smith/

[StirB]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	It's not seeing it as an issue, just another problem to work around. Amusingly you choose to live in a non EU country, oh the irony of most of the anti BREXIT posters here.

As much as they may try to deny it (and the SVP will certainly back me up!) Switzerland is a de facto EU country. The fact we as EU citizens get / got priority to work here is one of the obvious benefits.

Switzerland played the EU very well when it came to their bilaterals, i'll bet you a pint of Malta's finest beer that the UK won't get close to the Swiss deal.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Switzerland has always been a non EU country, so no idea why you're so confused. Clearly you never heard of the referendum party 1994-1997.Terry Smith my favourite fund manager was a Eurosceptic & stood as a candidate for West Chelmsford in 1997. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendum_Party https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efs5lwUMy4o https://portfolio-adviser.com/vote-brexit-terry-smith/

I've no idea what point you are trying to make.

You think it's ironic that I apparently "chose" to move to a non-EU country but your logic is flawed and irrelevant. Probably because you haven't a clue why or when I moved here, nor what my circumstances are.

Of course there have always been Eurosceptics flapping around in the background but it has only been relevant in the last two years when there was a panicked, half-assed referendum on it and the rest is history.

What were you expecting people who disagreed with Brexit to do in light of the result? Move back to the UK in some misguided solidarity with other remainers?

How bizarre.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	I've no idea what point you are trying to make. You think it's ironic that I apparently "chose" to move to a non-EU country but your logic is flawed and irrelevant. Probably because you haven't a clue why or when I moved here, nor what my circumstances are. Of course there have always been Eurosceptics flapping around in the background but it has only been relevant in the last two years when there was a panicked, half-assed referendum on it and the rest is history. What were you expecting people who disagreed with Brexit to do in light of the result? Move back to the UK in some misguided solidarity with other remainers? How bizarre.

I am amazed at how people living in a non EU country in Europe, the most successful country in Europe are banging on about how Britain needs to be in the EU so they don't die of starvation or something to that effect. They will likely die early from obesity if the status quo continues.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I am amazed at how people living in a non EU country in Europe, the most successful country in Europe are banging on about how Britain needs to be in the EU so they don't die of starvation or something to that effect. They will likely die early from obesity if the status quo continues.

Are you actually reading the posts or do you just have a "Spin-the-wheel of Brexit-thread responses" on your desk, and hope for the best?

Dying of starvation? What are you on about?

[lewton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I am amazed at how people living in a non EU country in Europe, the most successful country in Europe are banging on about how Britain needs to be in the EU so they don't die of starvation or something to that effect. They will likely die early from obesity if the status quo continues.

What makes Switzerland the most successful country in Europe?

Also, Switzerland is virtually in the Single Market, should the UK also agree to such a comprehensive deal?
Sounds like you support Soft Brexit.

[Chuff]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I am amazed at how people living in a non EU country in Europe, the most successful country in Europe are banging on about how Britain needs to be in the EU so they don't die of starvation or something to that effect. They will likely die early from obesity if the status quo continues.

Objectively speaking I don't think Switzerland's situation is or ever really was like the UK's at the moment. Switzerland has worked to get this deal over the course of many decades of fine-tuning (hiccups included) and was never fully in the EU from the start. It has had a lot of time to mature and had widespread acceptance while doing so.

In contrast, the UK government joined the pre-EU collective, has been a key member for a long time and then a few decades later voted to leave suddenly and abruptly. While working to implement this it has been running around like a headless chicken, alienating most of Europe and severely weakened its position and influence among its closest trading partners.

If Brexit had been handled by a strong leadership within a unified party, all working towards a common goal, it may have been different, but sadly English politics is at its lowest ebb in at least my living memory and what we have is a bunch of jackals fighting for scraps while pointing fingers at the rest, while our largely insidious tabloid media rubs their hands with glee and uses it to make lots of money and further influence the masses.

[baboon]

	Quote:	lewton
	What makes Switzerland the most successful country in Europe? Also, Switzerland is virtually in the Single Market, should the UK also agree to such a comprehensive deal? Sounds like you support Soft Brexit.

Not just virtually, Switzerland in in the Single Market, therefore following the rules and subject to the ECJ on Single Market matters as will.

Switzerland is however not in customs union with the EU. A different matter.