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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #14201  
Old 23.10.2018, 14:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I purchased a flat for £40,000 which today is worth £985,000, Urs Max wrote "Adjusted for inflation since 1981 that's less than £250k." is where the £250k came from.
So...what caused the local housing market to thrive and values to increase way beyond national averages?

Was it, perhaps, EU businesses setting up branches in the area?

Was it EU workers moving to the UK and pushing property prices up due to increased demand in that area?

Was it EU funding for inner city redevelopment that made the area more attractive to potential buyers?

Etc....
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  #14202  
Old 23.10.2018, 14:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Are we talking about the same miners that kept going on strike? Regular power cuts.

Like typewriter engineers, some business's become irrelevant over time.
EU Health & safety laws would have killed the mining towns, it was just a matter of time.
This is absolutely typical of the trash you keep coming out with, just as long as it was OK for you , then too bad for the rest of your fellow country men and women it was all their fault.

But if you were born the son of a farmer or a miner there was nothing you could do about the fact that there was no money and very few opportunities in this communities for you to advance. These were times when farmers had to put down animals because they could not afford to feed then, where there were markets with no buyers etc. And no matter how hard you worked there was no money!

You were lucky in the 80s, but many were not, that is all.
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  #14203  
Old 23.10.2018, 14:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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And this is why learning punctuation is important.
Common sense should pick up the obvious error, but then misunderstanding was your intention so you could try to score a point.
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  #14204  
Old 23.10.2018, 14:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Common sense should pick up the obvious error, but then misunderstanding was your intention so you could try to score a point.
Common sense would have been for you to include the £1500 figure, then there could have been NO confusion. Common sense also tells me you were attempting to continue boasting, until you got caught out.
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  #14205  
Old 23.10.2018, 14:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Are we talking about the same miners that kept going on strike? Regular power cuts.

Like typewriter engineers, some business's become irrelevant over time.
EU Health & safety laws would have killed the mining towns, it was just a matter of time.
Or the EU renewable energy directive.

I watched Brassed Off the other day, had to hoot at his speech at the end. 10 years to see what's coming and not one of them thought to retrain or try something new? The limit of their view was mining (mostly by hand tools), brass band and the social club? Forever? And all their decedents too? With massive taxpayers subsidies? Incredible.
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  #14206  
Old 23.10.2018, 14:48
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So...what caused the local housing market to thrive and values to increase way beyond national averages?

Was it, perhaps, EU businesses setting up branches in the area?

Was it EU workers moving to the UK and pushing property prices up due to increased demand in that area?

Was it EU funding for inner city redevelopment that made the area more attractive to potential buyers?

Etc....
Mortgages maxed out at about 3-3.5 single earnings or 2 times joint earnings pre Big Bang.

Deregulation & demutualisation of Building societies so that they could lend money from the wholesale market. Self Certified mortgages & more women working full time.

In short in 2005 people could borrow far more relative earnings than 20 years earlier. People who falsified their earnings on self certified mortgages have never been charged with mortgage fraud, they should have gone to prison, instead they have been helped when they could not pay their loan.

Lower interest rates (cheap money) available to everybody has caused prices to rise above earnings. Interest rates need to rise sharply so prices fall & property becomes affordable again.
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  #14207  
Old 23.10.2018, 14:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Common sense would have been for you to include the £1500 figure, then there could have been NO confusion. Common sense also tells me you were attempting to continue boasting, until you got caught out.
No attempt at boasting, just showing what was possible in the 1980's that I believe is impossible today.
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But if you were born the son of a farmer

You were lucky in the 80s, but many were not, that is all.
EU policy has been brilliant for farmers, remember the UK farmers of the 60's.
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  #14208  
Old 23.10.2018, 14:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Or the EU renewable energy directive.

I watched Brassed Off the other day, had to hoot at his speech at the end. 10 years to see what's coming and not one of them thought to retrain or try something new? The limit of their view was mining (mostly by hand tools), brass band and the social club? Forever? And all their decedents too? With massive taxpayers subsidies? Incredible.
Even in the US with their Trump driven beautiful coal ideas they are switching their approach from sending miners underground into dangerous places.
Now they use huge machines to dig it out from the top which requires far fewer people who anyway have totally different skill sets.
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  #14209  
Old 23.10.2018, 14:56
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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No attempt at boasting, just showing what was possible in the 1980's that I believe is impossible today.
Getting a recording contract with Stock, Aitken & Waterman was also possible in the 1980s but not everyone had the luck or opportunity. HTH
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  #14210  
Old 23.10.2018, 15:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Please educate me on the alternatives, EU legislation was not going to allow such dangerous dirty work to continue.
Sigh.

No. I picked up on something I got from your previous post that suggested that miners themselves somehow contributed to the closing of the mines. I then commented from a long-reaching repercussions standpoint having seen first hand the effects on ex-mining towns and villages and the children...and grandchildren of miners (of which I am one).

Mining was - indeed is - dangerous and dirty. So dangerous that compensation claims are still being paid out AFAIK. But it was deemed so important that miners were exempt from
conscription. I don't see the point you're making. And my current profession is irrelevant to any answer you care to give thanks. Unless you've now segued into troll country. Besides, I've not only ever been "one" thing, which I'm assuming is the same for a lot of folk on EF. We are all the sum of many many parts. But that doesn't make for easy scores, does it? If we try and engage with the complex whole rather than simply picking at the one bit that scares/bothers/ offends...


But, as everything I write is deemed by you to be missing the point - and seriously, it's you're, short for you are, not your, which is purely possession - even though "the point" appears to be a moveable feast depending on current wind direction, and as you are insistent that anyone who may have poked a toe into a university (apart from your Oxbridge Don Superhead bro) is a blithering eejit.. there's no real discussion to have is there? You make a lot of presumptions, as you are entitled to do, but proceed to try and shut anyone else down who does the same. Shouting the loudest does not mean you will be listened to longest. Maybe you'll be heard first, but noise is easy to dismiss.

Anyway. This Brexit doodad...
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  #14211  
Old 23.10.2018, 15:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Or the EU renewable energy directive.

I watched Brassed Off the other day, had to hoot at his speech at the end. 10 years to see what's coming and not one of them thought to retrain or try something new? The limit of their view was mining (mostly by hand tools), brass band and the social club? Forever? And all their decedents too? With massive taxpayers subsidies? Incredible.
First of all, Brassed Off is A Film, not A Documentary, as marvellous as Pete Postlelthwaite was...


Secondly...retrain as what? Where? How? How do you clothe and feed your kids with bugger all?

If you've been a miner all your working life because that's what the men in your village do... because you've lived in mining subsidised houses (probably the one you were born in), because that is the societal expectation, even need, for you to be a miner (because society, all societies, have always needed, and been prepared to pay, someone to empty the chamber pot) and your education is basic, transport is minimal and the working men's clubs have subsidised alcohol to keep you going until the next weekend... that is your life. To scoff at that shows a very limited understanding of the reality of that life. Their view was largely limited, on purpose, by the very companies and governments who needed them to be limited, right up until the metaphorical rug was pulled.

Last edited by RufusB; 23.10.2018 at 15:54. Reason: Typo
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  #14212  
Old 23.10.2018, 15:28
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Sigh.

No. I picked up on something I got from your previous post that suggested that miners themselves somehow contributed to the closing of the mines. I then commented from a long-reaching repercussions standpoint having seen first hand the effects on ex-mining towns and villages and the children...and grandchildren of miners (of which I am one).

Mining was - indeed is - dangerous and dirty. So dangerous that compensation claims are still being paid out AFAIK. But it was deemed so important that miners were exempt from
conscription. I don't see the point you're making. And my current profession is irrelevant to any answer you care to give thanks. Unless you've now segued into troll country. Besides, I've not only ever been "one" thing, which I'm assuming is the same for a lot of folk on EF. We are all the sum of many many parts. But that doesn't make for easy scores, does it? If we try and engage with the complex whole rather than simply picking at the one bit that scares/bothers/ offends...


But, as everything I write is deemed by you to be missing the point - and seriously, it's you're, short for you are, not your, which is purely possession - even though "the point" appears to be a moveable feast depending on current wind direction, and as you are insistent that anyone who may have poked a toe into a university (apart from your Oxbridge Don Superhead bro) is a blithering eejit.. there's no real discussion to have is there? You make a lot of presumptions, as you are entitled to do, but proceed to try and shut anyone else down who does the same. Shouting the loudest does not mean you will be listened to longest. Maybe you'll be heard first, but noise is easy to dismiss.

Anyway. This Brexit doodad...
Am I the only person that finds this post of yours incredibly difficult to read? On my 3rd attempt as I write.
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  #14213  
Old 23.10.2018, 15:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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From your post wot I quoted in my answer


How does "today" suddenly become "between 2010 and 2015"?
The reference to Germany was only for comparison reasons.
Do you disagree with what I wrote about the UK opening its doors to the new member states before the other senior EU countries did, which led to a disproportionately high inflow of expats from those countries to the UK (and therefore pushed many not very intelligent people to vote for Brexit)?
And if you do disagree, please show some statistics from the relevant period, that is before the referendum.

Otherwise you are only spreading Fake Stats.

PS. Please also see my post connected with the one it was answering to.
I am going to repeat the whole relevant sub-thread in order to show how ridiculous your post was.

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Again, this is disconcertingly vague. We are already able to act in favor of our own interests, but on many issues (e.g. immigration, benefits) we chose not to.
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Exactly!
The UK chose the high moral way of letting all from the new member states to come in from day 1 when most other counties used the maximum allowed delays in implementing freedom of movement.
This was great (no irony).
And even more so because it was right after the crisis.

Today Germany is practically begging people from Eastern Europe to move here, and it accepts any non European with a job offer (family members included), while the UK acts like a hysterical old lady.
And here comes the troll, accusing me of lying about immigration before the referendum and using 2018 numbers to back his trolling up.
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Well it is important to recognise UK reality versus what they say!

In the year ending March 2018 the official statistics of net immigration to UK are
EU 87,000
non-EU 235,000

The gross immigration (excluding emigration) was 614,000 so one can hardly claim the UK is anti immigration

Source

So whatever new controls they devise for EU immigrants the reality is the number of non-EU immigrants (who are fully UK controlled) is almost three times the number of EU immigrants.

In fact the number of EU immigrants is trivial
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And what was the situation before the referendum?
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Google is your friend.

But why do you think that is relevant?
Now please explain why you found it important to mention 2018 immigration numbers, if not to discredit the role that the massive immigration before 2016 played in the referendum result.
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  #14214  
Old 23.10.2018, 15:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Getting a recording contract with Stock, Aitken & Waterman was also possible in the 1980s but not everyone had the luck or opportunity. HTH
Ooh... Rick. Sonya. Jason...

Sinitta!
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  #14215  
Old 23.10.2018, 15:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Am I the only person that finds this post of yours incredibly difficult to read? On my 3rd attempt as I write.
Dunno.

CATH, we need a poll. Stat.

I'd laugh, but then that would become a bit combative, defensive and personal then, wouldn't it? I also suspect that is what may have started the chip rolling in the first place.

Stir B is right, the humble comma is pretty important.

Last edited by RufusB; 23.10.2018 at 15:46. Reason: Clarification.
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Old 23.10.2018, 15:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Both your assumptions & Ur's assumptions were a long way from the mark.
What assumptions? You may not accept official statistics such as this, to me they're fact.
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  #14217  
Old 23.10.2018, 15:49
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Dunno.

CATH, we need a poll. Stat.

I'd laugh, but then that would become a bit combative, defensive and personal then, wouldn't it?
Sorry I could not resist.
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  #14218  
Old 23.10.2018, 15:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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What assumptions? You may not accept official statistics such as this, to me they're fact.
Inflation, House Prices & earnings have not correlated in the UK over the last 40 years, so using an inflation figure in relation to a house price whilst factual is meaningless.
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  #14219  
Old 23.10.2018, 15:54
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Sorry I could not resist.
Apostrophes good, missing commas though.
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Old 23.10.2018, 15:57
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Sorry I could not resist.
Go for it.
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