The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Norway keeps about 90% of the fish that comes out of its waters.

Doesn't it depend on the type of fish? Some fish species have much lower quotas.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	You didn't seem to be shedding any tears over your property gaining in value, earlier in the thread. Ironically I agree with you but it only adds weight to the fact that people thrive on mostly luck when it comes to wealth. You can have all the knowledge of an area and its potential but if you aren't lucky enough to snap up a property it's worth exactly zero.

I sold it for £94,950, I only said what it's value was today according to mouseprice

Not snapping up UK property would be my tip, it should be 50% lower than it is today based on salaries, probably lower than that. Tax changes for BTL will fully bite in 2022 when many highly geared landlords will go bankrupt.

It's actually impossible to price out the next generation for any length of time, as at some point property will be sold at the price they can pay afford to pay.

[smackerjack]

I was watching a fascinating programme recently about a man from Jamaica who came over in the 1960s with his wife to London.
He took a job as a bus conductor with London Transport. He said that he saved for a shortish period and used the cash to put down as a deposit on a house in Clapham - but he had his own home and could just about pay the mortgage. the property now is worth around 1.25 million

The difference is now that a bus conductor would be lucky if they would be able to rent a flat share in that area - let alone be able to save a deposit and buy a place - FMF is certainly correct about the overpricing of property

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	smackerjack
	I was watching a fascinating programme recently about a man from Jamaica who came over in the 1960s with his wife to London. He took a job as a bus conductor with London Transport. He said that he saved for a shortish period and used the cash to put down as a deposit on a house in Clapham - but he had his own home and could just about pay the mortgage. the property now is worth around 1.25 million The difference is now that a bus conductor would be lucky if they would be able to rent a flat share in that area - let alone be able to save a deposit and buy a place - FMF is certainly correct about the overpricing of property

In 1960 I suspect the house cost between £1000 - 2000 & needed some refurbishment. Affordable for the ordinary working man. How exactly have people lives improved in 58 years? Rather less than the younger people in this thread think.

[fatmanfilms]

Malta-UK agreements to remain in place after Brexit - Prime Minister
https://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/e...8#.W89X7aeQ1QK

Perhaps it won't be the end of the world after all.

[curley]

	Quote:	smackerjack
	I was watching a fascinating programme recently about a man from Jamaica who came over in the 1960s with his wife to London. He took a job as a bus conductor with London Transport. He said that he saved for a shortish period and used the cash to put down as a deposit on a house in Clapham - but he had his own home and could just about pay the mortgage. the property now is worth around 1.25 million The difference is now that a bus conductor would be lucky if they would be able to rent a flat share in that area - let alone be able to save a deposit and buy a place - FMF is certainly correct about the overpricing of property

Jein.

<<In the 1960s and 1970s, the population of London fell as people moved to the suburbs and beyond.>> source

I wouldn't know whether property generally is overpriced in London.
But it is extremly obvious that the supply and demand is different. And that is something that deeply influences the property market. And brings the speculators into the arena. So yes, the properties are overpriced but for other reasons than assumed here.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	curley
	Jein. <<In the 1960s and 1970s, the population of London fell as people moved to the suburbs and beyond.>> source I wouldn't know whether property generally is overpriced in London. But it is extremly obvious that the supply and demand is different. And that is something that deeply influences the property market. And brings the speculators into the arena. So yes, the properties are overpriced but for other reasons than assumed here.

The definition of London has changed. In 1960 Highgate Zone 3 underground was in Middlesex a suburb. London taxi drivers can refuse the fare as its more than 6 miles from Marble Arch. It's definitely considered London today.

Demand is the ability to pay, not desire or need.

Cheap money & ability to borrow without proof if income in the early 2000's hugely increased prices. Help to Buy free interest loans of £400,000 stoke the ability to pay, only problem is interest is payable after 5 years & it's only available for new builds.

[lewton]

	Quote:	marton
	So now you move your goal posts from 2010 - 2015 to 2012 - 2016 Anyway what is the relevance of the period 2012 - 2016 to your claim "the UK opening its doors to the new member states before the other senior EU countries did, which led to a disproportionately high inflow of expats from those countries to the UK" when the UK opened these doors in 2004?

If you are such a detailed-oriented person, then yes I moved the post. Sue me.

As far as I am concerned, I was referring to the years before the referendum.
I was writing from my phone in the U-Bahn on the way back to work, and I did not have the time to find the exact years.
Were the EU-citizens immigration numbers much higher in 2015 than in 2010? As per your graph, absolutely yes, from about 75 thousand to about 175 thousand.
Did the massive increase happen exactly between 2010 and 2015? No, it started in 2012 and lasted until 2016. I should burn in hell for this.

At the same time, you accused me of lying, or at best that I had believed lies and was spreading them in the forum, and your best attempt at validating your claim was the immigration numbers from 2018.
So I repeat, have you no shame?

[marton]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	Doesn't it depend on the type of fish? Some fish species have much lower quotas.

The people who bang on about UK exercising Sovereign rights over fishing in UK territorial waters usually fail to mention that will condemn everybody to a diet of mostly herring

[marton]

	Quote:	lewton
	If you are such a detailed-oriented person, then yes I moved the post. Sue me. As far as I am concerned, I was referring to the years before the referendum. I was writing from my phone in the U-Bahn on the way back to work, and I did not have the time to find the exact years. Were the EU-citizens immigration numbers much higher in 2015 than in 2010? As per your graph, absolutely yes, from about 75 thousand to about 175 thousand. Did the massive increase happen exactly between 2010 and 2015? No, it started in 2012 and lasted until 2016. I should burn in hell for this. At the same time, you accused me of lying, or at best that I had believed lies and was spreading them in the forum, and your best attempt at validating your claim was the immigration numbers from 2018. So I repeat, have you no shame?

Ah, so you claim the immigration numbers for 2016 that were not published until 2017 had a big effect on the 2016 referendum vote

Maybe you should change your U-Bahn.

[marton]

	Quote:	smackerjack
	I was watching a fascinating programme recently about a man from Jamaica who came over in the 1960s with his wife to London. He took a job as a bus conductor with London Transport. He said that he saved for a shortish period and used the cash to put down as a deposit on a house in Clapham - but he had his own home and could just about pay the mortgage. the property now is worth around 1.25 million The difference is now that a bus conductor would be lucky if they would be able to rent a flat share in that area - let alone be able to save a deposit and buy a place - FMF is certainly correct about the overpricing of property

I know a number of people who bought London properties in the 60s and 70s but have been forced to move out because the increase in property values has driven up their property insurance to levels their pensions are inadequate to cover

Of course, they can now buy very nice properties outside London but far from their friends and usual haunts!

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	marton
	I know a number of people who bought London properties in the 60s and 70s but have been forced to move out because the increase in property values has driven up their property insurance to levels their pensions are inadequate to cover Of course, they can now buy very nice properties outside London but far from their friends and usual haunts!

Property insurance should not be very high as you're insuring the rebuilding cost & not the land value. The land value is far more than 50% of market value. Buildings should be in the £250-£500 range, I know someone just quoted £175 for a flat they paid £725k for, I don't know the rebuilding figure but sub £200k

[Odile]

Dyson - Singapour

[marton]

Dyson started moving production out of the UK in 2002.
So far as I know Dyson have not manufactured anything in Europe in the last decade.

They are rumoured to have at least 7,000 employees in Malaysia and Singapore!

For those still with questions about sovereignty, imagine having to have the EU sign off on your national budget.

I know the UK isn't in the Eurozone, however when you read the treaties, it is a stated aim of the EU to have further financial union.

EU rejects debt-hit Italy's budget

[StirB]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	I know the UK isn't in the Eurozone

That's a pretty big caveat to your argument for Brexit!

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	For those still with questions about sovereignty, imagine having to have the EU sign off on your national budget. I know the UK isn't in the Eurozone, however when you read the treaties, it is a stated aim of the EU to have further financial union. EU rejects debt-hit Italy's budget

funniest quote from the article:

	Quote:
	This is the first Italian budget that the EU doesn't like

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	For those still with questions about sovereignty, imagine having to have the EU sign off on your national budget. I know the UK isn't in the Eurozone, however when you read the treaties, it is a stated aim of the EU to have further financial union. EU rejects debt-hit Italy's budget

Then again, once more you picked up the wrong example. From a country driven by inflation, with an Italian lira that was the laugh of the entire stock, probably only Burkina Faso national currency paired the inflation and devaluation this currency has constantly been through, from the dip shit they were in the '60 and '70s and '80s due to corruption and mafia state.....to where Italy is today? And EU didn't play a ing role into this? Wow. Ignoring the evidence, your honour.

Just to make things clear. I don't think UK needs EU. Neither economically, nor culturally. But the South of Europe developed a lot in the past decades due to EU and to say EU is their enemy now? EU didn't invest in each country, not everyone has benefited the same way and I give credit to those countries which were more dilapidated than before and ripped off of their resources instead of being given opportunities, but Italy? For God's sake, please, stop with picking up these kind of examples.

	Quote:	greenmount
	Then again, once more you picked up the wrong example. From a country driven by inflation, with an Italian lira that was the laugh of the entire stock, probably only Burkina Faso national currency paired the inflation and devaluation this currency has constantly been through, from the dip shit they were in the '60 and '70s and '80s due to corruption and mafia state.....to where Italy is today? And EU didn't play a ing role into this? Wow. Ignoring the evidence, your honour. Just to make things clear. I don't think UK needs EU. Neither economically, nor culturally. But the South of Europe developed a lot in the past decades due to EU and to say EU is their enemy now? EU didn't invest in each country, not everyone has benefited the same way and I give credit to those countries which were more dilapidated than before and ripped off of their resources instead of being given opportunities, but Italy? For God's sake, please, stop with picking up these kind of examples.

Whether Italy's budget is correct or not is neither here nor there. The fact is that there is a democratically elected government in Italy who were voted in on the promise of economic reform. The EU are now impeding what Italian people, and their government want. This could get interesting.

[StirB]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Whether Italy's budget is correct or not is neither here nor there. The fact is that there is a democratically elected government in Italy who were voted in on the promise of economic reform. The EU are now impeding what Italian people, and their government want. This could get interesting.

I suspect if you join a currency union, as Italy did, you can't unilaterally decide you need to print a shit ton more currency - devaluing it for everyone else - without asking them.