The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	It's funny when people consider companies having to pay tax that they owe as "getting screwed". Funny old world.

The thing is they did not have to pay those taxes according to the Irish government. Apple would not have invested in Ireland, 25% of Apple's European employees are in Ireland, this gives enormous boost to the local economy & taxation.

I am pleased to see the Apple had abandoned an €850 Million data centre in Ireland. https://www.ft.com/content/388206da-...e-41e0209208ec

It doesn't really matter what the Irish government think. They effectively subsidized/bribed/use whichever shady verb you fancy-ed Apple's EU business. Apple attributed all sales to a non-existent HQ in Dublin instead of paying tax on the sales of products in individual EU countries. It then furthermore received a preferential rate compared to other companies based in Ireland - again illegal under EU tax laws.

In all honesty, I hope the EU starts doing more of this and stops the nonsense of multinationals avoiding tax and social responsibility everywhere where that they are selling products.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	UK is already a tax haven to Non Doms. Well Apple got screwed by the EU on it's Irish tax deal so I guess international companies won't trust the EU anymore.

Basis for the charge is that the deal represents both illegal tax avoidance (as Apple is siphoning profits out of other countries and into the low tax deal with Ireland) and therefore is both depriving other countries of tax revenue that would be rightly theirs and also represents illegal state aid on the part of Ireland (as Apple pay less tax than other companies).

Apple has a maximum tax rate of 1% in Ireland and in 2014 paid just 0.005%. The normal rate in Ireland is 12.5%.

Ireland can tax at whatever rate it wants. It is not allowed to suck in taxable revenue from other countries, nor to give selected individual companies special rates.. The UK has similar domestic anti-avoidance rules (pre-dating the EU rules even, IIRC) but is notably poor at enforcing them.

Edit - StirB types faster

Also, the Athenry Data Centre wasn't abandoned because they were forced to pay tax back, but because of delays due to improper planning. The impact (environmental, social, local) investigation was deliberately undercooked to make the site look not too damaging and inevitably locals who saw this complained. It now has to be reviewed by the Irish Supreme Court (even though Apple have now pulled out!).

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	UK is already a tax haven to Non Doms. Well Apple got screwed by the EU on it's Irish tax deal so I guess international companies won't trust the EU anymore.

Another example of EU membership impacting a country's sovereignty to govern.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Another example of EU membership impacting a country's sovereignty to govern.

Probably loads more, too, but you have to balance that out with the amount of subsidy and benefits which come from membership otherwise your point is a little one-sided and unbalanced.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Another example of EU membership impacting a country's sovereignty to govern.

Is it really though? You could probably argue that it should be Ireland's sovereign choice if they want to be allowed to offer individual companies individual tax arrangements, although if they wish to be part of an trading block or trade treaty, that is obviously a no-no. I would also suspect that Irish companies would be well within their rights to take their government to task about unfair competition.

What is more cut and dried is that no country should allow (read as: encourage) companies to wash the profits generated from sales in other countries through their ropey tax system and expect nobody to complain.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Is it really though? You could probably argue that it should be Ireland's sovereign choice if they want to be allowed to offer individual companies individual tax arrangements, although if they wish to be part of an trading block or trade treaty, that is obviously a no-no. I would also suspect that Irish companies would be well within their rights to take their government to task about unfair competition. What is more cut and dried is that no country should allow (read as: encourage) companies to wash the profits generated from sales in other countries through their ropey tax system and expect nobody to complain.

In exactly the same way that Switzerland does!

Competition is always a good thing & taxation should not be excluded.

You can pay the highest price for any service if you wish to do so.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	In exactly the same way that Switzerland does! Competition is always a good thing & taxation should not be excluded. You can pay the highest price for any service if you wish to do so.

Which part of this are you suggesting Switzerland does, for clarity's sake?

[st2lemans]

Well, at least the UK has nukes, and most of the EU doesn't.

Tom

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Which part of this are you suggesting Switzerland does, for clarity's sake?

offer individual companies individual tax arrangements


As you should know, both personal & corporate deals are done.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	offer individual companies individual tax arrangements As you should know, both personal & corporate deals are done.

That is simply not true.

Some Cantons allow Tax Forfait for PERSONAL taxation, although many do not.

No Cantons allow Tax Forfait for companies, but apply their local rates which vary by Gemeinde.

All companies will pay Federal Tax on top of this.

[marton]

There is an EU proposal for Irish goods to travel direct to Belgium and Holland instead of to France via UK, as now, to avoid Brexit created issues.

If the French manage to defeat this EU proposal and there is a no deal Brexit then the French will somehow have to implement a two stream system in Calais, a Customs checking system for UK goods and a straight pass through system for Irish ones
Probably means adding an extra lane to all the access roads for the high speed Irish goods.

[lewton]

	Quote:	marton
	Ah, so you claim the immigration numbers for 2016 that were not published until 2017 had a big effect on the 2016 referendum vote Maybe you should change your U-Bahn.

People felt the increased immigration.
After 3 years of more than double the previous number, it was obvious. And the tabloids did their best to present it as some kind of invasion.
It's easy to convince a not very intelligent person, especially one that can barely make ends meet, that their country and their NHS is under attack by Eastern Europeans.
I don't understand why you refuse to accept that increased immigration played a huge role in the referendum result.

At this point it is obvious that you are only arguing because you don't want to apologize for accusing me of lying.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	That is simply not true. Some Cantons allow Tax Forfait for PERSONAL taxation, although many do not.

Some Cantons or Most cantons?
it would be easier to list the few who NO LONGER do, they all did until fairly recently.

[lewton]

In another topic, shouldn't the SNP start preparing a referendum on whether to stay in the UK or the EU?
55% of Scots voted to stay in the UK and more than 60% voted to stay in the EU.
I suppose they should also give a third option of getting out from both unions.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Some Cantons or Most cantons? it would be easier to list the few who NO LONGER do, they all did until fairly recently.

If you believe this, then you just torpedoed your own answer from before. You are truly confusing. See y'all in two days when I'm back from Lisbon...up the Arse!

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	If you believe this, then you just torpedoed your own answer from before. You are truly confusing. See y'all in two days when I'm back from Lisbon...up the Arse!

Why not answer the question proving I am wrong?

A list of cantons that either do or don't, so the list should be considerably less than 13 whoever is correct, it can't be that difficult.

No idea what is wrong with quoting, 2nd attempt

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Why not answer the question proving I am wrong? A list of cantons that either do or don't, so the list should be considerably less than 13 whoever is correct, it can't be that difficult. No idea what is wrong with quoting, 2nd attempt

Lump-sum taxation applies to personal tax for individuals only and isn't available to corporations to reduce corporate tax, as already stated. The qualification criteria were toughened up a few years ago and the amount of federal tax payable was increased at the same time. Only around 5,000 individuals in the entire country have such an arrangement, so the number of cantons offering lump-sum tax deals isn't exactly relevant.

[marton]

	Quote:	lewton
	People felt the increased immigration. After 3 years of more than double the previous number, it was obvious. And the tabloids did their best to present it as some kind of invasion. It's easy to convince a not very intelligent person, especially one that can barely make ends meet, that their country and their NHS is under attack by Eastern Europeans. I don't understand why you refuse to accept that increased immigration played a huge role in the referendum result. At this point it is obvious that you are only arguing because you don't want to apologize for accusing me of lying.

You already admitted your post was incorrect, I quote "I was writing from my phone in the U-Bahn on the way back to work, and I did not have the time to find the exact years."