Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #14321  
Old 26.10.2018, 13:00
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,698
Groaned at 356 Times in 307 Posts
Thanked 14,290 Times in 7,840 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Clearly that's the EU's position but generally speaking I don't think that holds.

Otherwise freee trade agreements, which I know none of that includes FMOP, would be very difficult to implement, or impossible, or whatever the lack of FMOP would mean to them.

FMOP isn't necessary for the EEA either, but it is a necessity if the EU is to become some sort of federation or even a state.
A common market is not the same thing as a free trade agreement.

Outside of the EU, the nearest thing to a common market is the situation in the US where the federated States trade freely together with a common currency and free movement of people but have many of their own laws like Sales taxes.
Reply With Quote
  #14322  
Old 26.10.2018, 14:20
lewton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Hamburg, Deutschland
Posts: 911
Groaned at 41 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 773 Times in 446 Posts
lewton is considered knowledgeablelewton is considered knowledgeablelewton is considered knowledgeable
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

So.... Who said it would be easy to maintain the WTO membership?
https://uk-mobile-reuters-com.cdn.am...rom%20%251%24s
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank lewton for this useful post:
  #14323  
Old 26.10.2018, 14:28
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 3,882
Groaned at 128 Times in 113 Posts
Thanked 5,399 Times in 2,597 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
So.... Who said it would be easy to maintain the WTO membership?
https://uk-mobile-reuters-com.cdn.am...rom%20%251%24s
From that...:

Quote:
"As expected, some trading partners have expressed reservations about our proposed treatment of Tariff Rate Quotas," Fox said in a written statement to the British parliament, referring to trading rights granted to major agricultural exporters.

Fox did not name the objectors but he will have to switch to "modification" of the British WTO agreement, giving other countries the right to negotiate and demand concessions from London, which could take years.
Sounds very like it's the US that are objecting.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank baboon for this useful post:
  #14324  
Old 26.10.2018, 14:54
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,698
Groaned at 356 Times in 307 Posts
Thanked 14,290 Times in 7,840 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
From that...:


Sounds very like it's the US that are objecting.
There was a list of some objectors published a while back including US, Australia and New Zealand.
Reply With Quote
  #14325  
Old 26.10.2018, 15:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 7,761
Groaned at 263 Times in 226 Posts
Thanked 9,304 Times in 4,898 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
A common market is not the same thing as a free trade agreement.

Outside of the EU, the nearest thing to a common market is the situation in the US where the federated States trade freely together with a common currency and free movement of people but have many of their own laws like Sales taxes.
Sure, it requires the same legal framework but that doesn't require FMOP.
Reply With Quote
  #14326  
Old 26.10.2018, 16:34
lewton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Hamburg, Deutschland
Posts: 911
Groaned at 41 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 773 Times in 446 Posts
lewton is considered knowledgeablelewton is considered knowledgeablelewton is considered knowledgeable
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

I'm wondering what kind of concessions the US might be demanding in order to let the UK's WTO membership go though rapidly.
Reply With Quote
  #14327  
Old 26.10.2018, 16:56
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 3,882
Groaned at 128 Times in 113 Posts
Thanked 5,399 Times in 2,597 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I'm wondering what kind of concessions the US might be demanding in order to let the UK's WTO membership go though rapidly.
Oh the usual. GM foods, chlorine-washed chicken, hormones in meat, getting rid of all that inconvenient EU environmental protection, opening up the NHS to US firms, etc.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank baboon for this useful post:
  #14328  
Old 26.10.2018, 16:58
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 7,761
Groaned at 263 Times in 226 Posts
Thanked 9,304 Times in 4,898 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I'm wondering what kind of concessions the US might be demanding in order to let the UK's WTO membership go though rapidly.
My bet is on chlorinated chicken, hormone-laden beef and GMOs, among others.

See this tome on trade barriers (500 pages!!) the US published earlier this year.
Reply With Quote
  #14329  
Old 26.10.2018, 17:53
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,415
Groaned at 119 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 5,280 Times in 2,493 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I'm wondering what kind of concessions the US might be demanding in order to let the UK's WTO membership go though rapidly.
My guess is it will not happen for a long time. Apparently fast tracking the UK/EU trade schedules has died at the WTO with over 20 undisclosed countries objecting and the UK will no be required to do a full negotiation to get there... The group, I understand, includes USA, Argentina, NZ, Australia (?) and Russia.

Of course a no deal with the EU would cause the number to go to at least 47 out of 160+....
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #14330  
Old 26.10.2018, 18:03
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,698
Groaned at 356 Times in 307 Posts
Thanked 14,290 Times in 7,840 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Sure, it requires the same legal framework but that doesn't require FMOP.
A single, or common, market goes a lot further than a trade agreement: as well as tariffs and quotas, it seeks to remove various other barriers to trade.

Source

I agree FMOP is not required but is useful
Reply With Quote
  #14331  
Old 26.10.2018, 18:05
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 8,376
Groaned at 270 Times in 219 Posts
Thanked 10,990 Times in 5,841 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Clearly that's the EU's position but generally speaking I don't think that holds.
.
I guess it's used as a leverage in negotiations. There are much more important things they want to get out of Brexit. That's just a smoke screen imo. OK, there are a few millions of EU citizens living in the UK, but so are British citizens living in the EU.

Quote:
View Post
Otherwise freee trade agreements, which I know none of that includes FMOP, would be very difficult to implement, or impossible, or whatever the lack of FMOP would mean to them.
.
But it's obvious there will be some free trade agreements in many areas. It will be such a complicated process because UK will have to get out of all those treaties, prior to Maastricht etc. which in turn will split the negotiations process in quite a few chapters. An all inclusive, one treaty that fits all economic areas will not be possible once the legal mechanisms will be dismantled. So practically the same deal without FMOP is out of discussions. They'll get rid of FMOP for sure, but also of some other agreements. Ironically, UK is practically engaged in a proxy war between USA and EU.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #14332  
Old 26.10.2018, 18:08
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,698
Groaned at 356 Times in 307 Posts
Thanked 14,290 Times in 7,840 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
My guess is it will not happen for a long time. Apparently fast tracking the UK/EU trade schedules has died at the WTO with over 20 undisclosed countries objecting and the UK will no be required to do a full negotiation to get there... The group, I understand, includes USA, Argentina, NZ, Australia (?) and Russia.

Of course a no deal with the EU would cause the number to go to at least 47 out of 160+....
It was always a naive idea by Brexiteers that Commonwealth countries would step in and save Brexit.

The UK abandoned the Commonwealth when it joined the Common Market and will not be forgiven quickly!
Reply With Quote
  #14333  
Old 27.10.2018, 00:15
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 23,047
Groaned at 553 Times in 424 Posts
Thanked 25,570 Times in 11,735 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I'm wondering what kind of concessions the US might be demanding in order to let the UK's WTO membership go though rapidly.
Well explained here:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/video/mone...-uk/vp-BBNMhCj
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #14334  
Old 27.10.2018, 01:57
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,415
Groaned at 119 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 5,280 Times in 2,493 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I'm wondering what kind of concessions the US might be demanding in order to let the UK's WTO membership go though rapidly.
Well given the Russians and the Argentines are also objecting, I’d say the US is the least of their worries! And apart from being able to exclude the EU 27 and the couple of countries that have acknowledged it, we don’t know who else is in the 20 or so objections lodged to date.
Reply With Quote
  #14335  
Old 27.10.2018, 03:30
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,202
Groaned at 89 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 8,889 Times in 4,073 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
...we don’t know who else is in the 20 or so objections lodged to date.
Moldova is one.

My mate's been rabbiting on about this bad blood with Modova for months now. His stock answer to Brexiteers is how the UK only had 27 other countries to deal with in the EU. In the WTO, the UK will have 164 countries that can veto them.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...k-1-7-trillion

https://www.economist.com/britain/20...-moldovan-veto
Reply With Quote
  #14336  
Old 27.10.2018, 15:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 8,376
Groaned at 270 Times in 219 Posts
Thanked 10,990 Times in 5,841 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Moldova is one.

My mate's been rabbiting on about this bad blood with Modova for months now. His stock answer to Brexiteers is how the UK only had 27 other countries to deal with in the EU. In the WTO, the UK will have 164 countries that can veto them.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...k-1-7-trillion

https://www.economist.com/britain/20...-moldovan-veto
Haha, they have a point. Remember how upset you were when Trump wanted to ban some Muslim countries? It seems UK had the same attitude. Not granting visas to officials who wanted to discuss the future of bilateral relations post-Brexit, not some simpletons willing to just visit UK, it is a big diplomatic affront that even a tiny country like Moldova shouldn't let anyone get away with. Frankly, it's well deserved. Why should they let it go and not react, and make everything easy for UK? Well, I hope it's only that and not Russia's influence....
Anyway, if it's one of the 20, it seems odd that your friend is rabbiting only about this country and doesn't see their point too. If all will agree, Moldova won't stand alone, no worries...

Last edited by greenmount; 27.10.2018 at 16:01.
Reply With Quote
  #14337  
Old 27.10.2018, 16:17
StirB's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,578
Groaned at 151 Times in 133 Posts
Thanked 6,508 Times in 2,784 Posts
StirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I don't think that's true, look up Lex Bonny. While its applicability has been reduced by a lot and replaced by a successor regulation tax reduction (perhaps complete elimination) for up to ten years is still used to increase CH's attractiveness.
Lex Bonny is very specific to mitigate job losses in industrial Gemeindes of CH. More importantly to our discussion with FMF, it does NOT get applied to selective companies (i.e. no sweetheart deals) and is available to ANY company that fulfils certain criteria...

1. Must be considered an industry (i.e. manufactures goods)
2. Must be a new concern
3. Must be of benefit to the Gemeinde / Canton.
Reply With Quote
  #14338  
Old 27.10.2018, 20:35
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,202
Groaned at 89 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 8,889 Times in 4,073 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Frankly, it's well deserved. Why should they let it go and not react, and make everything easy for UK? Well, I hope it's only that and not Russia's influence....
Anyway, if it's one of the 20, it seems odd that your friend is rabbiting only about this country and doesn't see their point too. If all will agree, Moldova won't stand alone, no worries...
Oh he does see their point. He's been using the Moldova example to quash Brexiteers who claim that membership of the WTO can be seen as 'taking back control' when the reality is that it multiplies many potential issues because of the sheer number of members.

I see their point too, and totally agree that it's a huge affront. Governance of the UK is very far from perfect and blameless in many areas.
Reply With Quote
  #14339  
Old 27.10.2018, 21:02
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 205
Groaned at 19 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 300 Times in 168 Posts
John William has earned the respect of manyJohn William has earned the respect of manyJohn William has earned the respect of many
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Well with many British Expats and Immigrants due to be relegated to third country citizen status in
their adopted EU country, following a final Brexit.

Is now the time for them to write to their MP and ask for a replay ( the much vaunted 2nd Referendum )
and hope we can avoid relegation, the second time round ?

Last edited by John William; 27.10.2018 at 21:20.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at John William for this post:
  #14340  
Old 27.10.2018, 21:42
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,202
Groaned at 89 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 8,889 Times in 4,073 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

The problem with learning a new language is that I've become more pedantic about how English is written. I'm resisting the urge to scrutinise /correct your post John William. No offence meant.

The expat/immigrant experience of Brits in Switzerland is markedly different to that of Brits elsewhere in the EU. For example, there's a considerable move in Spain to have a number of MPs dedicated to represent overseas British nationals and voters.

As the British Ambassador explained at the Brexit roadshows, what is decided for brits in Switzerland, will largely be based upon the final deal between the the UK and the EU. However, Switzerland has expressed a desire to maintain a close relationship with the UK, and I keep hearing how people are being invited to renew their residence permits earlier than the expiration date on their current ones. Someone on EF was asked to renew their permit a year early, and mine was 4mths early. When it arrived, I was only expecting 1 or 2yrs, but was given a 5yr permit.

The big issue will come with the right to work in CH. I'm talking to friends in Spain and Germany to get an indication of how it will pan out here.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
europe




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Latest Referendum, what will be consequences for EU (C permit and B permit) holders? expat2014 Permits/visas/government 3 11.02.2014 08:59
Importing vehicles and the VAT consequences in Switzerland from France BEFO Finance/banking/taxation 6 07.08.2013 15:11
The (Available in CH) Dog Food Review Thread meloncollie Pet corner 44 08.05.2012 20:15
Common-law marriage and consequences in CH Mishto Family matters/health 9 01.10.2011 22:03
Something for the Brits: M&S in CH mark Daily life 11 15.11.2007 12:18


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0