The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	The EU have offered to halt and reverse the process at any given point in the proceedings. All the cards are on the table and anything is still possible.

The last time I've seen that was a year or more ago. Got a recent reference?

	Quote:	Urs Max
	The last time I've seen that was a year or more ago. Got a recent reference?

Seems it has been deliberately written with foggy language in the event the leaving member state has a bit of wriggle room if it goes t*ts up. Sounds like good planning and searing foresight now, doesn't it?

It would only be decided in court and is thus far untested.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Are you talking to us or the mirror? Legally, Article 50 can be revoked. It's there in the text of the article. There is no question that it cannot be revoked. It's one of the few things that everybody involved in the process is very clear on.

Can you provide a link to the text in the article.? as I don't believe what you're saying is correct as it's written with a lack of clarity. The UK Supreme Court ruling assumes it can't be revoked & I assume they had a glance before reaching a decision

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Can you provide a link to the text in the article.? as I don't believe what you're saying is correct as it's written with a lack of clarity. The UK Supreme Court ruling assumes it can't be revoked & I assume they had a glance before reaching a decision

It hasn't been tested so nobody knows.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	The last time I've seen that was a year or more ago. Got a recent reference?

Crikey! There's loads of them, but you can begin with these...

Thursday 26 July 2018 10:15 - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8464341.html

Many of the references have been tv interviews and statements...

Thursday 27 September 2018 10:06 - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8557126.html

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Can you provide a link to the text in the article.? as I don't believe what you're saying is correct as it's written with a lack of clarity. The UK Supreme Court ruling assumes it can't be revoked & I assume they had a glance before reaching a decision

Is Google broken today or something?

Some reading material for you...

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/...e-50-explained

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...liament-brexit

https://ukhumanrightsblog.com/2017/0...s-rosie-slowe/

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39291512

https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/tag/...-revocability/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8065591.html

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	As I stated to Odile it's just an opinion & not a fact, unfortunately she does not understand the difference where you do.

Yeah but looking at the bigger picture the EU is more likely to come down on the side of cancelling the whole car crash, if it were ever mooted, than the EU digging its heels in.

The EU knows that the UK could apply afresh in the future anyway and, aside from personality clashes and butthurt politicians, fulfills the criteria for membership whatever.

Doubt it would happen right now, though. Maybe I wouldn't completely rule it out nearer to the brink because it's really mired in seemingly unresolvable issues.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:
	The EU knows that the UK could apply afresh in the future anyway and, aside from personality clashes and butthurt politicians, fulfills the criteria for membership whatever.

It would depend on the UK accepting all the conditions of membership, including the use of the EURO. Any exception could be problematic and could trigger referenda in Denmark, France and Ireland. And given all the anti French and Irish utterances we have heard from UK politicians over the past few months I doubt either government would be very excited to hold a referendum in their country to give a special exception to a new UK membership. And what if they were rejected? Would the UK even want to go through such a process???

No, I think if the UK walks away we will not see them return.

	Quote:	Jim2007
	It would depend on the UK accepting all the conditions of membership, including the use of the EURO. Any exception could be problematic and could trigger referenda in Denmark, France and Ireland. And given all the anti French and Irish utterances we have heard from UK politicians over the past few months I doubt either government would be very excited to hold a referendum in their country to give a special exception to a new UK membership. And what if they were rejected? Would the UK even want to go through such a process??? No, I think if the UK walks away we will not see them return.

Absolutely. I agree, but was just pointing out that nothing is cast in stone yet and everything is, in theory, on the table. I think it has to be that way if only to see some way of limiting the damage to the UK with its exit.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Is Google broken today or something? Some reading material for you... https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/...e-50-explained https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...liament-brexit https://ukhumanrightsblog.com/2017/0...s-rosie-slowe/ https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39291512 https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/tag/...-revocability/ https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8065591.html

Those are not links to the precise words in the article, which is why I asked the question. Fact v Opinion two very different things.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Those are not links to the precise words in the article, which is why I asked the question. Fact v Opinion two very different things.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=article+50+wording
First link.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	http://lmgtfy.com/?q=article+50+wording First link.

Sure but the words do not exist in A50, which is why I asked for a link to show words that I know don't exist.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Sure but the words do not exist in A50, which is why I asked for a link to show words that I know don't exist.

I'm struggling to see what point you are trying to make. As far as cancellation goes, from the wording I already linked to, it is clear that there is no specific clause for cancellation of A50.

If this is solely what you are clinging on to in order to see Brexit through to a smooth and easy conclusion I suggest you prepare yourself for disappointment.

Banging on at every post, demanding exact wording as if it somehow proves you right is a bit pointless.

Let's not forget you're not exactly immune to the liberal use of your own opinion which you try to pass off as fact, either. So, stones and glass houses and all, eh...

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	I'm struggling to see what point you are trying to make. As far as cancellation goes, from the wording I already linked to, it is clear that there is no specific clause for cancellation of A50. If this is solely what you are clinging on to in order to see Brexit through to a smooth and easy conclusion I suggest you prepare yourself for disappointment. Banging on at every post, demanding exact wording as if it somehow proves you right is a bit pointless. Let's not forget you're not exactly immune to the liberal use of your own opinion which you try to pass off as fact, either. So, stones and glass houses and all, eh...

I was merely arguing with another poster who claimed it was a fact, when I said it was an opinion. No idea why additional posters got on the bandwagon trying to prove I was wrong by linking to other opinions.

I believe BREXIT will happen, it was the wish of the people who voted when given the choice.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I was merely arguing with another poster who claimed it was a fact, when I said it was an opinion. No idea why additional posters got on the bandwagon trying to prove I was wrong by linking to other opinions.

Maybe because it is de facto true. The clause allows for indefinite postponement (with unanimous agreement of the Council) which amounts to exactly the same thing.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I believe BREXIT will happen, it was the wish of the people who voted when given the choice.

Indeed. And therein lies the problem: it was the will of a slim majority of a subset of UK citizens who voted a couple of years ago, many of whom (according to polls) have since changed their minds.

If you get engaged to marry someone and set a date, are you forced to go through with the wedding even if you change your mind? No, of course not, in 21st Century Britain.

If you're married, but decide to separate, are you forced to divorce regardless of reconciliation? No, of course not.

So why not confirm the current desires of UK citizens (ALL of them, this time) in a binding referendum before March 2019? I really can't see any logical reason not to.

	Quote:
	So why not confirm the current desires of UK citizens (ALL of them, this time) in a binding referendum before March 2019? I really can't see any logical reason not to.

A binding referendum would require a law change.

[lewton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	A binding referendum would require a law change.

Shouldn't the PM who promised to implement the result have stayed and fulfilled his promise?
What binds a future PM to implement it if by law they don't have to?

	Quote:	lewton
	Shouldn't the PM who promised to implement the result have stayed and fulfilled his promise? What binds a future PM to implement it if by law they don't have to?

They've voted on it in Parliament now so are bound to implement the result of the last referendum.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	A binding referendum would require a law change.

A referendum would require a new law anyway. No practical difference.