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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #14481  
Old 01.11.2018, 14:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

In the meantime, Murdoch and The Times 'bury' their own poll, of their own Conservatives readers, as it turns out with 'unwanted' results- and 70% of Times readers say there should be a People's vote on the final deal ...
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  #14482  
Old 01.11.2018, 14:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Container traffic is for the most part very long haul, as in to and from destinations outside Europe typically involving a ship that either crosses an ocean or goes through the Suez Canal. Freight within Europe is mostly Euro-palette based, and due to incompatibilities in the dimensions, you can't put Euro-palettes into containers very well without wasting a lot of space. Maritime containers are not defined by Euro but by US dimensions. This is why most Euro-palette freight within Europe is taken on soft-body lorries. Such lorries are wider than maritime containers. Possible exceptions to the trend are fluid/tank containers as used by the chemicals industry. You don't see many containers on Ro-Ro because coastal container ships are cheaper, with maybe some special case exceptions.

Thus a slump in container traffic actually reflects a slump in trans-ocean trade and not necessarily in internal trade.
31% of UK container traffic is with the EU

https://www.bifa.org/news/articles/2...or-uk-shipping
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  #14483  
Old 01.11.2018, 15:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Found this nice quote when searching for that Times poll..,:
Quote:
Anthony Hilton from the Evening Standard previously explained why Rupert Murdoch was so anti-EU.

He said: “I once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. ‘That’s easy,’ he replied. ‘When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice’
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  #14484  
Old 01.11.2018, 15:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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31% of UK container traffic is with the EU

https://www.bifa.org/news/articles/2...or-uk-shipping
Actually that article says 31% of the UK's lo-lo container traffic.

That's not at all the same thing.
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  #14485  
Old 01.11.2018, 15:10
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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According to the newspaers "The services deal would give UK companies access to European markets as long as British financial regulation remained broadly aligned with the EU's"

Will be a bonanza for the lawyers trying to agree and define what means "broadly aligned".
Clearly that mewling gobshite, Jacob Rees Mogg, isn't taking any chances though, seeing as his investment firm already opened offices in Ireland so he can still take advantage of EU rules.

He's not the only gobby Brexiter to have positioned himself so he can still operate on EU terms.

The "do as I say, not as I do" elite.
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  #14486  
Old 01.11.2018, 15:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Arron Banks faces criminal investigation over Brexit campaign

The elections watchdog says there are "reasonable grounds" to suspect he was not the true source of £8m in loans.
https://news.sky.com/story/national-...banks-11541786

In any corporate proceedings, if such a case were to occur, and negotiations and pending contracts would be suspended until the outcome is known.
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  #14487  
Old 01.11.2018, 15:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Actually that article says 31% of the UK's lo-lo container traffic.
numbers for 2017:

Total Lo-Lo tonnage is 64 mio tonnes, whereas it is 100 mi tonnes for ro-ro cargo (weight of cargo, excluding carrying vehicles. Also excluding car and bus import and exports)

For Ro-Ro it is 99.5% with the EU.
All port traffic types: total tonnage is 55%, total traffic 71% with the EU.
UK exports more through its sea ports to the EU than it imports from the EU.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...stics-2017.pdf
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  #14488  
Old 01.11.2018, 17:49
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Actually that article says 31% of the UK's lo-lo container traffic.

That's not at all the same thing.
True. But it is exactly what you were talking about. Unless you also counted ro-ro in which case you were even more wrong.
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  #14489  
Old 01.11.2018, 18:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Looks like 'Fraud' is coming to roost - and they won't get away with it - good.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics...U1liUVXo2BoFT8

In Common Law, no Government or Prime Minister- can interfere or 'excuse/ignore' fraud.
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  #14490  
Old 01.11.2018, 18:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Looks like 'Fraud' is coming to roost - and they won't get away with it - good.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics...U1liUVXo2BoFT8

In Common Law, no Government or Prime Minister- can interfere or 'excuse/ignore' fraud.
I don't understand the reference to common-law me Ladyship, please explain how that can possibly be true.
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  #14491  
Old 01.11.2018, 18:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Lazarus estates versus Beasley (1956), 1 QB 702, 712:

'No judgement of a court, no order of a Minister, can be allowed to stand if it has been obtained by fraud. Fraud unravels everything' - well established in British Law.

Happy to oblige.

Last edited by Odile; 01.11.2018 at 21:45.
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  #14492  
Old 01.11.2018, 21:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Arron Banks faces Brexit referendum spending probe

""There is no evidence of any wrongdoing from the companies I own. I am a UK taxpayer and I have never received any foreign donations. The Electoral Commission has produced no evidence to the contrary," he added in a statement."

Interesting that he chooses to say "there is no evidence" rather than say that he hasn't broken the law.
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  #14493  
Old 02.11.2018, 02:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Interesting that [...] rather than say that he hasn't broken the law.
The law doesn't work that way, that's simply irrelevant.

It's up to the prosecution to prove that there was a crime, and that the defendant was the perpertrator (to the extent the prosecution claims), nothing else matters. At all.

As such it would be a mistake for the defendant to make any kind of claim to any end. At all! Once s/he does make such a claim, proving the defendant deviated from the truth would severely damage his/her credibility and thus their position altogether.
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  #14494  
Old 02.11.2018, 03:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I don't understand the reference to common-law me Ladyship, please explain how that can possibly be true.
Neither does she! It does not matter what the outcome is, constitutional law trumps common law every time. The Miller decision made it clear the actual decision to BREXIT rests with parliament not the people nor the government. So trying to over turn the people’s opinion poll does not lead to over turning the decision of the sovereign parliament.
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  #14495  
Old 02.11.2018, 11:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Rarely quote from the Mail, but this is becoming 'interesting':

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...RCtGhjSw0mXWK8

Wit such a tiny majortiy, so many BIG lies- as big as a bus ... if fraud is doubly proven (it already has been once) and the PM was involved in stifling justice- they will have not much of a foot to stand on - as the reality (S*it) hits the proverbial fan.
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  #14496  
Old 02.11.2018, 11:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Rarely quote from the Mail, but this is becoming 'interesting':

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...RCtGhjSw0mXWK8
Love the way the DM keeps referring to the National Crime Agency as "Britain's FBI".

I bet its journo was itching to write "the feds".
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  #14497  
Old 02.11.2018, 11:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Oh, and now Cameron is bored ...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...z9S8yJjPEx9AoA
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  #14498  
Old 02.11.2018, 12:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
Lazarus estates versus Beasley (1956), 1 QB 702, 712:

'No judgement of a court, no order of a Minister, can be allowed to stand if it has been obtained by fraud. Fraud unravels everything' - well established in British Law.

Happy to oblige.
No you have not obliged in any way or stated how it's relevant.
You have, you clearly don't understand what case law is all about, it's not the same as codified law so irrelevant in every day life.
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  #14499  
Old 02.11.2018, 12:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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No you have not obliged in any way or stated how it's relevant.
You have, you clearly don't understand what case law is all about, it's not the same as codified law so irrelevant in every day life.
Semantics aside, I'd be surprised if there is not some legal backlash affecting the continuity of Brexit whilst there is an active fraud case underway with a direct implication to the referendum.
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Old 02.11.2018, 12:10
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The law doesn't work that way, that's simply irrelevant.

It's up to the prosecution to prove that there was a crime, and that the defendant was the perpertrator (to the extent the prosecution claims), nothing else matters. At all.

As such it would be a mistake for the defendant to make any kind of claim to any end. At all! Once s/he does make such a claim, proving the defendant deviated from the truth would severely damage his/her credibility and thus their position altogether.
'Beyond reasonable doubt' is the sticking point, having been the Forman of 2 juries, the accused likely were guilty but the police clearly lied in both cases leaving reasonable doubt & both were found not guilty.
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