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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #14581  
Old 06.11.2018, 01:32
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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How strange, thats about the predicted result from polls before the referendum. Looks like nothing changed at all & certainly nothing like a super majority

So why leave then ?
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  #14582  
Old 06.11.2018, 10:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So why leave then ?
Because that was the outcome of the referendum, a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote. I guess many people don't understand 'once in a lifetime', as attention span so low these days people think 2 years is a lifetime

There was no vote to join so why need a super majority to leave? There was some noise earlier in the thread from the minority voters.
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  #14583  
Old 06.11.2018, 10:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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There was no vote to join
Funny how so many people are happy to accept a decision made by Tories for Tory reasons back in the nineties, as if they were actually Lib Dems in disguise.
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  #14584  
Old 06.11.2018, 10:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Because that was the outcome of the referendum, a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote. I guess many people don't understand 'once in a lifetime', as attention span so low these days people think 2 years is a lifetime

There was no vote to join so why need a super majority to leave? There was some noise earlier in the thread from the minority voters.
Remember that time Nigel Farage said 52-48 votes should lead to second referendum?

Source
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  #14585  
Old 06.11.2018, 10:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Remember that time Nigel Farage said 52-48 votes should lead to second referendum?

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Who cares what that self-promoting gobshite says about anything?
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  #14586  
Old 06.11.2018, 10:23
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Who cares what that self-promoting gobshite says about anything?
Large swathes of the electorate, sadly.
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  #14587  
Old 06.11.2018, 10:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Because that was the outcome of the referendum, a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote. I guess many people don't understand 'once in a lifetime', as attention span so low these days people think 2 years is a lifetime
Who ever said that the "advisory, non-binding" referendum was a "once in a lifetime opportunity to vote"?

There is absolutely no reason not to hold another referendum. As I've argued earlier in this thread, and as a panel of legal experts recently stated in an open letter, the most democratic option would be to ask the people again for their opinion.
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  #14588  
Old 06.11.2018, 10:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Who ever said that the "advisory, non-binding" referendum was a "once in a lifetime opportunity to vote"?

There is absolutely no reason not to hold another referendum. As I've argued earlier in this thread, and as a panel of legal experts recently stated in an open letter, the most democratic option would be to ask the people again for their opinion.

i think that this is actually the least democratic option as you overrule the result of a referendum.


the most democratic option would be to implement a binding referendum in law and based on that have the option for a second referendum. kind of the Swiss way.
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  #14589  
Old 06.11.2018, 10:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Who ever said that the "advisory, non-binding" referendum was a "once in a lifetime opportunity to vote"?

There is absolutely no reason not to hold another referendum. As I've argued earlier in this thread, and as a panel of legal experts recently stated in an open letter, the most democratic option would be to ask the people again for their opinion.
I wondered when you were going to have the balls to reply to me

The vote was advisory to parliament who voted to accept the advice of the people. It's how it works in the UK

Absolutely no reason to hold a second, third or forth referendum until you get the result you favour.
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  #14590  
Old 06.11.2018, 10:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Absolutely no reason to hold a second, third or forth referendum until you get the result you favour.
So not even strong evidence of the people having changed their mind?
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  #14591  
Old 06.11.2018, 10:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So not even strong evidence of the people having changed their mind?
Opinion polls are not very different to before the referendum, just goes to show people lie when asked a direct question. Anonymous voting is something else. The samples are in the thousands rather than millions so subject to huge error.
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  #14592  
Old 06.11.2018, 10:56
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I wondered when you were going to have the balls to reply to me

The vote was advisory to parliament who voted to accept the advice of the people. It's how it works in the UK

Absolutely no reason to hold a second, third or forth referendum until you get the result you favour.
Exactly this. Plus Parliament voted 6 to 1 to hold the referendum in the first place.

The ironic thing is that the very same people who have been screaming that the referendum was "advisory and non-binding" are now calling for a second one.
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  #14593  
Old 06.11.2018, 10:57
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

I was less interested in what a new, overall referendum would bring (it was pointless then and it's pointless now) and more interested in the polls that asked more detailed questions about FMOP, Northern Ireland and the final trade deal.

These are the questions people should have been asked at the time.
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  #14594  
Old 06.11.2018, 11:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I wondered when you were going to have the balls to reply to me
That's a very odd response, implying (as it does) that I have avoided answering previous posts of yours... what's that all about?

I note you haven't answered my question about the "once in a lifetime" vote. You made that bit up, didn't you?

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The samples are in the thousands rather than millions so subject to huge error.
You just proved that you don't understand statistics, and in particular P-values. Your statement is very flawed.

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The ironic thing is that the very same people who have been screaming that the referendum was "advisory and non-binding" are now calling for a second one.
And your point is?

If there's a second referendum, the government would have two sets of non-binding advice from the general population that it supposedly represents. If the referendum results were opposite, that would set up an interesting situation: should the government place more weight on one of the results (for example, the more recent one, where the voters are better informed), or would they just ignore the people and carry on implementing their own agenda (as they are doing now)?
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  #14595  
Old 06.11.2018, 11:36
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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i think that this is actually the least democratic option as you overrule the result of a referendum.


the most democratic option would be to implement a binding referendum in law and based on that have the option for a second referendum. kind of the Swiss way.
So you disagree with the concept of holding regular General Elections, then. I mean, once the people have voted for their local representation and thereby indirectly for the government and its Prime Minister, they've made their choice and that's the way things should remain (pun intended) forever, right?
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  #14596  
Old 06.11.2018, 12:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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i think that this is actually the least democratic option as you overrule the result of a referendum.
Are you saying that a General Election every 5 years (or less) is not democratic?

I would say the average voter is much better informed now than then. Seeing as the majority then was so small (and the turnout so low) it makes sense to repose the question, or to seek public endorsement of the deal that (may be) eventually reached by HMG.

If HMG cannot reach an agreement by January then the people should be asked if they prefer remain or leave without an agreement.
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  #14597  
Old 06.11.2018, 12:15
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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That's a very odd response, implying (as it does) that I have avoided answering previous posts of yours... what's that all about?

I note you haven't answered my question about the "once in a lifetime" vote. You made that bit up, didn't you?


You just proved that you don't understand statistics, and in particular P-values. Your statement is very flawed.


And your point is?

If there's a second referendum, the government would have two sets of non-binding advice from the general population that it supposedly represents. If the referendum results were opposite, that would set up an interesting situation: should the government place more weight on one of the results (for example, the more recent one, where the voters are better informed), or would they just ignore the people and carry on implementing their own agenda (as they are doing now)?
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I don't think that's true, look up Lex Bonny. While its applicability has been reduced by a lot and replaced by a successor regulation tax reduction (perhaps complete elimination) for up to ten years is still used to increase CH's attractiveness.
17 Cantons which is the majority in anybodies book.

I wonder if StirB & 22 yards have the balls to apologise.
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Unfortunately your skepticism was well warranted, not everybody's got the spine to own up.
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Lump-sum taxation applies to personal tax for individuals only and isn't available to corporations to reduce corporate tax, as already stated.
As far as a once in a lifetime vote, it wast 'the biggest decision in out lifetime', very clearly laid out https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...ins-eu-7406590
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-br...-idUKKCN0Y81VK

Last edited by fatmanfilms; 06.11.2018 at 12:32. Reason: Added Urs's quote
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  #14598  
Old 06.11.2018, 12:52
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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17 Cantons which is the majority in anybodies book.

I wonder if StirB & 22 yards have the balls to apologise.



As far as a once in a lifetime vote, it wast 'the biggest decision in out lifetime', very clearly laid out https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...ins-eu-7406590
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-br...-idUKKCN0Y81VK
What on Earth are you on about???

Could you post something relevant to Brexit, please? And can you substantiate your claim that the referendum was strictly limited to a "once in a lifetime" chance?
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  #14599  
Old 06.11.2018, 13:12
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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What on Earth are you on about???

Could you post something relevant to Brexit, please? And can you substantiate your claim that the referendum was strictly limited to a "once in a lifetime" chance?
Sure, I have balls , I made a mistake with the wording, however 'the biggest decision in our lifetime' is a pretty strong statement from the Prime Minister. It clearly implies that you won't get another chance anytime soon.
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  #14600  
Old 06.11.2018, 13:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I would say the average voter is much better informed now than then. Seeing as the majority then was so small (and the turnout so low) it makes sense to repose the question, or to seek public endorsement of the deal that (may be) eventually reached by HMG.

If HMG cannot reach an agreement by January then the people should be asked if they prefer remain or leave without an agreement.
No deal is better than a bad deal, it's been stated all along. No need for a deal or a second vote without a deal.
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