The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

FMF's frequent referencing to his testicles on this thread is a bit eyebrow-raising...

[John William]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Because that was the outcome of the referendum, a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote. I guess many people don't understand 'once in a lifetime', as attention span so low these days people think 2 years is a lifetime There was no vote to join so why need a super majority to leave? There was some noise earlier in the thread from the minority voters.

Nothings for a lifetime - the once in a generation or once in a Lifetime Referendum simply doesn't really exist,
except in the minds of those that are afraid of a Second Referendum.

IndyRef2 has proven that point many times !!

And even Theresa May has conceded on the Scots having a Second Referendum.

So the Scots have proved that this once in a generation Referendum is b@llocs, they can change their mind !!

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	17 Cantons which is the majority in anybodies book. I wonder if StirB & 22 yards have the balls to apologise. As far as a once in a lifetime vote, it wast 'the biggest decision in out lifetime', very clearly laid out https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...ins-eu-7406590 https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-br...-idUKKCN0Y81VK

Has a whole section of this thread been deleted? I can see that as the only explanation for you not reading why you were wrong regarding company lump sum taxation and sweetheart deals a few pages back.

EDIT: I see it hasn't been deleted, so no excuses for you I'm afraid FMF:

https://www.englishforum.ch/3007976-post14443.html

	Quote:
	FMF's frequent referencing to his testicles on this thread is a bit eyebrow-raising...

Given his inability to read or comprehend, I think a trip to the knacker's yard might be in order.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	No deal is better than a bad deal, it's been stated all along. No need for a deal or a second vote without a deal.

Only by those with a vested financial interest in no deal.

	Quote:
	So you disagree with the concept of holding regular General Elections, then. I mean, once the people have voted for their local representation and thereby indirectly for the government and its Prime Minister, they've made their choice and that's the way things should remain (pun intended) forever, right?

no. the rule of general elections every x years is clear and definedby law.


if you want to repeat a referendum, there should be a well-defined reason to do so. that's why i wrote to do it the Swiss way.


now, it's just like some people don't like the outcome of a voting and vote again until they have the result they want. it takes away any credibility for the voting, regardless of the result.

	Quote:	k_and_e
	now, it's just like some people don't like the outcome of a voting and vote again until they have the result they want. it takes away any credibility for the voting, regardless of the result.

For many it's not such a simplistic view of "not liking" the outcome.

Serious failures in the campaigning ranging from misrepresentation, misleading and downright lying, to possible external interference, and dodgy ballots (everything linked ad nauseum throughout this thread) are more than enough grounds to revisit the method of the result.

Obviously, if you come down on the Leave side, you are going to want to keep the result as it is and shout down anyone questioning the result.

	Quote:
	For many it's not such a simplistic view of "not liking" the outcome. Serious failures in the campaigning ranging from misrepresentation, misleading and downright lying, to possible external interference, and dodgy ballots (everything linked ad nauseum throughout this thread) are more than enough grounds to revisit the method of the result. Obviously, if you come down on the Leave side, you are going to want to keep the result as it is and shout down anyone questioning the result.

it's not about the result but can you give an example of a voting without misrepresentation, misleading and downright lying, to possible external interference, and dodgy ballots?

	Quote:	k_and_e
	it's not about the result but can you give an example of a voting without misrepresentation, misleading and downright lying, to possible external interference, and dodgy ballots?

As I said in my comment - everything has been linked ad nauseum throughout the thread. Not all by me, by any means. Interesting reading.

	Quote:	k_and_e
	if you want to repeat a referendum, there should be a well-defined reason to do so. that's why i wrote to do it the Swiss way.

But Switzerland is not UK - totally different system of Government- Parliamentary Democracy where Referendums are a) not the norm b) advisory only. We can argue about changing the system - but this is not the way to do it. And what happened with Brexit is perhaps the strongest possible case about Direct Democracy and Referendums ...

There are many well-defined reasons- how many times do we have to list them

1. proven fraud
2. tiny majority
3. lies, massive ones, as big as a bus
4. no information given as to what it meant, eg consequences
5. no information at all about the form it would take, and even the Governement totally divided- so people could NOT vote in informed manner

for a start.

[bowlie]

Well that is your opinion. More recent polls in the UK show a majority think differently.

[marton]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	it's not about the result but can you give an example of a voting without misrepresentation, misleading and downright lying, to possible external interference, and dodgy ballots?

They threw us under the bus

[marton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	No deal is better than a bad deal, it's been stated all along. No need for a deal or a second vote without a deal.

Matter of interest I assume all your investments are denominated in Sterling so you will profit from the no deal Brexit?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	But Switzerland is not UK - totally different system of Government- Parliamentary Democracy where Referendums are a) not the norm b) advisory only. We can argue about changing the system - but this is not the way to do it. And what happened with Brexit is perhaps the strongest possible case about Direct Democracy and Referendums ... There are many well-defined reasons- how many times do we have to list them 1. proven fraud 2. tiny majority 3. lies, massive ones, as big as a bus 4. no information given as to what it meant, eg consequences 5. no information at all about the form it would take, and even the Governement totally divided- so people could NOT vote in informed manner for a start.

1) Proven by whom? I did not realise a court had ruled.
2) More than a million people is no tiny majority
People are not as stupid as you believe.

	Quote:	marton
	Matter of interest I assume all your investments are denominated in Sterling so you will profit from the no deal Brexit?

I have zero fixed expenditure in GBP, so the value of my assets in GBP is irrelevant, same for CHF. My expenses are mainly Euro although the majority of my assets are ultimately listed in the USA which is normal for am international investor.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	the majority of my assets are ultimately listed in the USA which is normal for am international investor.

Oh dear.... you might wan to consult a real professional about the tax implications of that.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Oh dear.... you might wan to consult a real professional about the tax implications of that.

Since I am not liable to taxation on worldwide earnings or capital gains where I live, investing internationally makes a lot of sense. I guess you need to google taxation of non domiciled residents. Obviously I suffer 15% US withholding tax on dividends after filling in a W8 BEN.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	it's not about the result but can you give an example of a voting without misrepresentation, misleading and downright lying, to possible external interference, and dodgy ballots?

Irish referenda require an independent commission chaired by a senior member of the judiciary to provide factual information on the topic being considered as well as providing corrections in situations where either side provides "alternative facts".

There is also a legal process by which any citizen can take an action to the Supreme Court to have the outcome of a referendum overturned. If they believe there was an issue with the process.

I cannot recall a single case where there was widespread concern over the referendum process.

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Irish referenda require an independent commission chaired by a senior member of the judiciary to provide factual information on the topic being considered as well as providing corrections in situations where either side provides "alternative facts". There is also a legal process by which any citizen can take an action to the Supreme Court to have the outcome of a referendum overturned. If they believe there was an issue with the process. I cannot recall a single case where there was widespread concern over the referendum process.

In Ireland, the process may be good but they have a problems with the topics. For example, the referendum about a woman's place in the home.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	In Ireland, the process may be good but they have a problems with the topics. For example, the referendum about a woman's place in the home.

So what is your problem? You don’t think they should address the issue? You think they should do a quick and dirty or as they intend they will take the time to do it properly? Which is what they intend to do since - there are no pending Supreme Court cases on it.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Since I am not liable to taxation on worldwide earnings or capital gains where I live, investing internationally makes a lot of sense. I guess you need to google taxation of non domiciled residents. Obviously I suffer 15% US withholding tax on dividends after filling in a W8 BEN.

I do not question investing international, but US listings are problematic for the family, should anything happen to the investor.

[marton]

	Quote:
	A German engineering group has just delivered another blow to Britain's struggling automotive industry. Schaeffler (SCFLF), which supplies automakers as well as the aerospace industry, said it was planning to close two plants in the United Kingdom. It highlighted "the uncertainty over Brexit" as a key factor in its decision to shut a plant in Llanelli, Wales, and a second in Plymouth, in southwest England.

Source

Schaeffler said only 15% of the goods it produces in the United Kingdom remain in the country and the vast majority is exported to the rest of Europe.