The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Odile
	You can't get behind a Governement who does not know what they want, and are totally divided on how to go forwards. You can't get behind a Government fightint the best deal that does not exist - and when no deal can never be as good as the deal we have now. If you truly feel, backed with evidence from many sides, that what your Governement is doing will be massively damaging for the country-you have to do everything you can to stop it. Even and more importantly, when it is clear that the the poorest in society who were lied to hugely to push them to vote for what will literally make them even much worse off- then you have to fight.

The government voted on BREXIT & passed a law, so they know EXACTLY what they want & that's to leave on 31 March 2019.

I don't see many starving poor people, the population is somewhat overweight which would imply people can afford to eat more than they need which puts unnecessary strain on the NHS so double whammy.

[John William]

	Quote:	Odile
	You can't get behind a Governement who does not know what they want, and are totally divided on how to go forwards. You can't get behind a Government fightint the best deal that does not exist - and when no deal can never be as good as the deal we have now. If you truly feel, backed with evidence from many sides, that what your Governement is doing will be massively damaging for the country-you have to do everything you can to stop it. Even and more importantly, when it is clear that the the poorest in society who were lied to hugely to push them to vote for what will literally make them even much worse off- then you have to fight.

Quite right - Now I know the Brexits have slapped down the opinion of an avalanche of esteemed
organisations in the past like the IMF, the OECD and even their very own Bank of England, the
Treasury and the National Audit Office along the lines of 'well they would say that being Lackeys
of the EU and in cahoots with the CBI' but even several leading Economists including this
Nobel laureate prize economist who reckons there's Zero chance that Britons will be any
better off, than if they remained in the EU.


Independent - Brexit: Zero chance that leaving the EU will make Britons better off

[John William]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	The government voted on BREXIT & passed a law, so they know EXACTLY what they want & that's to leave on 31 March 2019. I don't see many starving poor people, the population is somewhat overweight which would imply people can afford to eat more than they need which puts unnecessary strain on the NHS so double whammy.

H'm like all those 2nd Devolution Referendums that happened in Scotland - never say never on that one !!
The UK already has a track record on this and don't tell me 2nd Referendums don't go on in
other countries, in fact I've lost count of the number of times, the French colony of New
Caledonia ( in the Pacific ) have had a Referendum on Independence from France !!
The only saving grace is at least the French keep their New Caledonia, 2nd Referendums
down to generations intervals, unlike the UK who prefer or are perfectly willing to consider
Scottish Referendums on Devolution or Independence on much shorter time scales, Lol.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I don't see many starving poor people, the population is somewhat overweight which would imply people can afford to eat more than they need which puts unnecessary strain on the NHS so double whammy.

Stupid comment - it is not about what they do today, it about their quality of life in five, ten or even twenty years time.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Stupid comment - it is not about what they do today, it about their quality of life in five, ten or even twenty years time.

It will be way better in 10 or Twenty years time, thats the whole point of leaving, invest for a brighter future.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	The government voted on BREXIT & passed a law, so they know EXACTLY what they want & that's to leave on 31 March 2019.

It means nothing. The decision to leave the EU was the easy bit. Anyone with an IQ in double figures has moved onto what the implications mean. It's like saying "I made a decision to join a golf club but I haven't really thought beyond turning up in the changing room and standing around".

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I don't see many starving poor people, the population is somewhat overweight which would imply people can afford to eat more than they need which puts unnecessary strain on the NHS so double whammy.

Apart from your logic being a bit of a stretch (don't worry, I don't think you are alone as a Brexiter in this), people are overweight partly because they are veering towards cheap convenience food which is highly processed and full of empty calories.

This is not going to change after Brexit.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	It means nothing. The decision to leave the EU was the easy bit. Anyone with an IQ in double figures has moved onto what the implications mean. It's like saying "I made a decision to join a golf club but I haven't really thought beyond turning up in the changing room and standing around". Apart from your logic being a bit of a stretch (don't worry, I don't think you are alone as a Brexiter in this), people are overweight partly because they are veering towards cheap convenience food which is highly processed and full of empty calories. This is not going to change after Brexit.

Cheap convenience food is not 'cheap'.........., the 'poor' are able to waste money on convenience food. A higher proportion of lower income people buy lottery tickets & smoke.

[RufusB]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Cheap convenience food is not 'cheap'.........., the 'poor' are able to waste money on convenience food. A higher proportion of lower income people buy lottery tickets & smoke.

It's a damn sight cheaper for a family of 4 to shop at Iceland, for example, than it is to buy everything fresh. As for the other generalisation....

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	RufusB
	It's a damn sight cheaper for a family of 4 to shop at Iceland, for example, than it is to buy everything fresh. As for the other generalisation....

Sainsbury's sell whole fresh chickens for £3, much cheaper for feeding a family of 4 than processed frozen shit. On the assumption you're correct it will be cheaper in Iceland.........

[John William]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	It will be way better in 10 or Twenty years time, thats the whole point of leaving, invest for a brighter future.

The only thing is where is the extra money going to come from in trade, to invest in that brighter future ? when
the UK will immediately kick off in a worst and uncompetitive position, applying WTO rules tariffs on its
trade with the rest of the world.
Before even considering all that friction at the border, going through customs, filling in all those forms, more
red tape, etc, etc - with the UK making a mockery of just in time trading !!

Nevertheless glad some Brexit fans are recognizing that its going to take 10 or 20 years or more, to be
anywhere near better off, than where we are now.
Obviously reality is sinking in at last !!

I'm sure the millennial's will be loving the prospect of having to wait up to 10 or 20 years or more,
before reaping the fruits of Brexit.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	It will be way better in 10 or Twenty years time, thats the whole point of leaving, invest for a brighter future.

I think this is a prime example of the empty rhetoric which the government is using to try to sell whatever deal they have on the table at any given time.

There is no "point" in leaving because nobody has been able to give even a hint of what the future may bring, never mind whether there is anything positive to salvage from it.

Empty. Vague. Rhetoric.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Sainsbury's sell whole fresh chickens for £3, much cheaper for feeding a family of 4 than processed frozen shit. On the assumption you're correct it will be cheaper in Iceland.........

How is this relevant to Brexit?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:
	Sainsbury's sell whole fresh chickens for £3, much cheaper for feeding a family of 4 than processed frozen shit.

But have you seen them in the shops? They're grey. Put them next to a £7+ chicken and it's astonishing how discoloured they are. I wouldn't feed them to a dog, and there are health hazards attached...
https://www.farmdrop.com/blog/real-c...market-chicken

Please just admit it FMF, you've never had to scrape by to feed a family on a pittance. You've never had to decide whether to have food or credits for your electricity meter. You've never been overjoyed when you've receive a few quid of Tesco Clubcard vouchers because it means you can eat that week. You've never walked 4 miles to get Nicky toilet rolls because they're cheaper than supermaket budget brands (and far better quality). You've never walked down the street looking for any bits of change people may have dropped.

Those are the people who will be hardest hit by Brexit. Those are the people who are already losing jobs by the thousand. You're 'alright Jack'.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	I think this is a prime example of the empty rhetoric which the government is using to try to sell whatever deal they have on the table at any given time. There is no "point" in leaving because nobody has been able to give even a hint of what the future may bring, never mind whether there is anything positive to salvage from it. Empty. Vague. Rhetoric. How is this relevant to Brexit?

The point of leaving is the huge debt & unfunded pensions the EU has somehow to pay.

Food will be cheaper out of the Common Agricultural Policy, so very relevant, it's vital not to have a deal with the EU.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Food will be cheaper out of the Common Agricultural Policy, so very relevant, it's vital not to have a deal with the EU.

But that's only your opinion. Unless you are hiding a link somewhere which backs this up. And it will take a lot of backing up.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	But that's only your opinion. Unless you are hiding a link somewhere which backs this up. And it will take a lot of backing up.

Your probably aware food in CH is more expensive so as to protect the Swiss Farmers, food is more expensive in the EU to protect French Farmers. It's protectionism & not a free market at all.

As your having a problem with google I will give you a link to the C.A.P .https://ec.europa.eu/info/food-farmi.../cap-glance_en

'ensure that European Union (EU) farmers can make a reasonable living'
'keep the rural economy alive promoting jobs in farming, agri-foods industries and associated sectors'
This comes at a price............

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	You're probably aware food in CH is more expensive so as to protect the Swiss Farmers, food is more expensive in the EU to protect French Farmers. It's protectionism & not a free market at all. As you're having a problem with google I will give you a link to the C.A.P .https://ec.europa.eu/info/food-farmi.../cap-glance_en 'ensure that European Union (EU) farmers can make a reasonable living' 'keep the rural economy alive promoting jobs in farming, agri-foods industries and associated sectors' This comes at a price............

That doesn't back up your assertion that food will become cheaper post-Brexit, though. In fact, your post actually suggests the opposite.

[John William]

Finally here's proof that you can have another British Referendum on the EU without being
accused of it being a Second Referendum.

The question to be put forward to the British people is direct and to the point:

Should the British Government revoke Article 50 - Answer Yes or No ?

The above question is simple and straightforward & contains nothing that was asked of the
British People in the Referendum, on Britain's future in the EU back in June 2016.

It's certainly a far better question to ask than the Peoples Vote question, which will only
ask whether the British People agree with the UK's final Withdrawal Agreement with the EU
or not.

In fact you could call it The Article 50 Referendum.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	John William
	It's certainly a far better question to ask than the Peoples Vote question, which will only ask whether the British People agree with the UK's final Withdrawal Agreement with the EU or not.

I've just been FB "unfriended" by a former school colleague who was a hardened Brexiteer in the run up to Brexit ("we're overrun by immigrunts, I tells ya!!"). Went quiet for a few months then started sharing "Peoples Vote - demand a second vote!" posts. FFS...

I innocently pointed out that perhaps he should have thought about that before voting to Leave, aaaannnnddd... PUFFF! Game over.

[aSwissInTheUS]

	Quote:	John William
	Should the British Government revoke Article 50 - Answer Yes or No ?

You keep using that word. I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means.

Revoking Article 50 ( of the Lisbon Treaty) would need an unambiguous vote of all EU members. It also would mean the there would be no longer an Article 50 in the treaty. It is open for discussion what with membership withdrawn notices which were handed in before Article 50 was revoked should happen. It would also mean that a withdrawn from the EU would no longer be possible for any member state.

What you properly mean is to retract UK's withdrawn notice according article 50 of the Lisbon treaty. Just a small problem, the Lisbon Treaty does not foresee that a membership withdrawn notices could be retracted once handed to the European Council.

[Odile]

There is nothig to say it can't be done either.

As Jo Johnson says, to give people a choice between total chaos or vassalage- is not Democratic. Especially when (list given above, again and again)- something to do with tiny minority, massive lies, proven fraud, etc.