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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #14681  
Old 10.11.2018, 18:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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What you properly mean is to retract UK's withdrawn notice according article 50 of the Lisbon treaty. Just a small problem, the Lisbon Treaty does not foresee that a membership withdrawn notices could be retracted once handed to the European Council.
We will soon have an answer to this as the matter has been submitted by the courts in Scotland to the ECJ.
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  #14682  
Old 10.11.2018, 18:50
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

From Jo Johnson:

Indeed, the choice being presented to the British people is no choice at all. The first option is the one the Government is proposing: an agreement that will leave our country economically weakened, with no say in the EU rules it must follow and years of uncertainty for business. The second option is a “no deal” Brexit that I know as a Transport Minister will inflict untold damage on our nation. To present the nation with a choice between two deeply unattractive outcomes, vassalage and chaos, is a failure of British statecraft on a scale unseen since the Suez crisis. My constituents in Orpington deserve better than this from their Government.

What is now being proposed won’t be anything like what was promised two years ago.

Hopes for “the easiest trade deal in history” have proved to be delusions. Contrary to promises, there is in fact no deal at all on our future trading relationship with the EU which the government can present to the country. Still less anything that offers the “exact same benefits” as the Single Market, as David Davis promised, or the “precise guarantees of frictionless trade” that the Prime Minister assured us would be available. All that is now being finalised is the agreement to pay the EU tens of billions of pounds. All that may be on offer on trade is the potential for an agreement to stay in a temporary customs arrangement while we discuss the possibility of an EU trade deal that all experience shows will take many years to negotiate.

Even if we eventually secure a customs arrangement for trade in goods, it will be bad news for the service sector — for firms in finance, in IT, in communications and digital technology. Maintaining access to EU markets for goods is important, but we are fundamentally a services economy. Many in Orpington, for example, are among the two million Britons employed in financial services, commuting into the centre of London to jobs of all kinds in the City. Countries across the world go to great lengths to attract financial and professional services jobs from our shores. An agreement that sharply reduces access to EU markets for financial services — or leaves us vulnerable to regulatory change over which we will have no influence — will hurt my constituents and damage one of our most successful sectors.
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  #14683  
Old 10.11.2018, 19:00
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Should the British Government revoke Article 50 - Answer Yes or No ?
I would suggest is far more important to make sure you get it right this time rather than be worried about calling it a second referendum. And in that respect that above question would be no better that the previous one.

Voters should be provides will all the options and an independent commission that can raise the red flag with the BS starts.
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  #14684  
Old 10.11.2018, 19:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Sainsbury's sell whole fresh chickens for £3, much cheaper for feeding a family of 4 than processed frozen shit. On the assumption you're correct it will be cheaper in Iceland.........
You've also got to have the money to be able to afford to cook the chicken. And buy stuff to go with the chicken. Some folk can't run the iron if they also want to boil a kettle: it simply costs too much. And yesI know neither of them cook a chicken.

If you have the money, if you and your partner are both working minimum wage shifts, you may just not have the time.

I'm sorry, you may know numbers and finance and stuff, but your finger is not on the pulse of the UK's economically deprived. Not a Scooby.

Back to Brexit... I hate to agree even in part with anyone sharing Boris genes but...
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  #14685  
Old 10.11.2018, 19:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Back to Brexit... I hate to agree even in part with anyone sharing Boris genes but...
Boris is the anomaly in that family...

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He was a Conservative MEP for Wight and Hampshire East from 1979 to 1984 and is a former employee of the World Bank and the European Commission. He is co-chairman of Environmentalists for Europe (E4E),[2][3] a collection of pro-EU environmentalists campaigning for the UK to remain a member of the EU.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Johnson_(writer)
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  #14686  
Old 10.11.2018, 19:48
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Even Johnson Senior/father now agrees a 3 way vote is the only democratic option- with chaos/vassalage/remain options.
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  #14687  
Old 10.11.2018, 20:01
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Boris himself had written two speeches, one in favour of Remain and one for Brexit. It was the biggest con of the century, goes where the wind blows to become PM. I don't think he believes any of it, just a scoundrel that manipulates to get what he wants.
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  #14688  
Old 11.11.2018, 00:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Sainsbury's sell whole fresh chickens for £3, much cheaper for feeding a family of 4 than processed frozen shit. On the assumption you're correct it will be cheaper in Iceland.........
This chicken is not listed on their web site here.
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  #14689  
Old 11.11.2018, 09:48
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Boris himself had written two speeches, one in favour of Remain and one for Brexit. It was the biggest con of the century, goes where the wind blows to become PM. I don't think he believes any of it, just a scoundrel that manipulates to get what he wants.


Isn't this what most politicians do anyway? The only one who could have never done that would be Farage, I think. He's a single-issue politician but at least "sincere" in his own way - never fooled anyone or pretended he's something else than what he really is. A bit (more) like Trump. And surprise.....these guys get their message across much better than all those pseudo-centre or pseudo-moderate ones...
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  #14690  
Old 11.11.2018, 10:24
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Isn't this what most politicians do anyway? The only one who could have never done that would be Farage, I think. He's a single-issue politician but at least "sincere" in his own way - never fooled anyone or pretended he's something else than what he really is. A bit (more) like Trump. And surprise.....these guys get their message across much better than all those pseudo-centre or pseudo-moderate ones...
Are you sure about that?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNCwcTu9U6U
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  #14691  
Old 11.11.2018, 10:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Wow, you beat me to it - 'sincere' wow. He is an inveterate compulsive liar and opportunist of the worst possible kind!

In the meantime, a good article today in The Guardian, about scape goat Theresa May- and her opponents having not a single valid solution of their own.
Don't particularly like the woman, but she has earned my respect over past few months, and she is certainly the very best of a very bad bunch.

Mrs May is in an impossible position, because a good Brexit never existed outside the glib fantasies of its proponents. There has never been a deal available that would allow the United Kingdom to continue to enjoy all the many benefits of its partnership with the European Union, as the Brexiters once promised, from the outside. As I’ve remarked before, any deal negotiated by any prime minister was bound to be suboptimal, because there are no terms more favourable to Britain than those that it currently enjoys as a member of the EU. There never was some tremendous bargain there to be struck if only Mrs May had had the wit to spot it. From the start, she has been choosing between varieties of the inferior. And where she has made mistakes, they have flowed not from betraying the hard Brexiters but from doing their bidding and seeking to appease them.

It is now nearly 30 months since the referendum, with fewer than five to go before Britain is due to leave. If there were some smart solution to Brexit, we are entitled to wonder why the Brexiters have never revealed it to the rest of us. They have been florid in their denunciations of Mrs May’s ideas without once producing a plan of their own that passes the most basic tests of viability. Michael Gove, purportedly the cleverest of their number, has been reduced to arguing that the cabinet should swallow whatever terms Mrs May can cobble together in the hope of having another go at some unspecified date in the future.


In the meantime, 4 more Ministers are about to quit- and the EU has rejected the latest plan - quite rightly - as it does not solve the Irish Border issue, and is still having cake and eat it.
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  #14692  
Old 11.11.2018, 10:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

No deal is a sure thing now, hope every Brexiteer is happy with what they get. Emergency budget shouldn't be far behind as well, be ready for a swift and massive cut to pensions first as it's the biggest expenditure. Then benefits, then education.


At least the markets can gain some certainty at last, if falling off a cliff can be called that..
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  #14693  
Old 11.11.2018, 10:38
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

And from inews.co.uk:

Those who support Brexit most strongly are far happier standing outside the delivery process rather than taking responsibility for it. That is clear in the way that Boris Johnson prefers to act as if he is still campaigning for Brexit rather than stay in the government delivering it, and why several other Brexiters – perhaps more principled than Johnson, although that is not to put them in a vanishingly small minority – such as Steve Baker prefer the pleasures of purity to the dull compromises of governing. It is most bizarrely evident in David Davis’ criticism today of the Government’s Brexit negotiating strategy: he was responsible for it until last summer. So we have a strange and, to the best of my knowledge, unprecedented situation. A group of people who are passionate and uncompromising advocates of a fundamental economic and geo-political shift for a nation don’t actually know much about what it means in practice, and have very little interest in delivering it. It is political irresponsibility on a wanton, scandalous scale.
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  #14694  
Old 11.11.2018, 10:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

The rightwing pressure group the TaxPayers’ Alliance has conceded that it illegally sacked the whistleblower Shahmir Sanni for revealing unlawful overspending in the Brexit referendum campaign.

In a development that lawyers have described as “almost unprecedented”, the group has also conceded that it illegally vilified Sanni on the BBC in coordination with a network of other “linked” organisations.

In March, Sanni revealed to the Observer massive overspending by the official Vote Leave campaign, which has now been found to be in breach of the law by the Electoral Commission.
The day before this was published, Downing Street released a statement that revealed Sanni was gay.

Chris Milsom, a barrister who specialises in whistleblowing cases, said: “How does an ostensibly private company come to be working with Downing Street?
What is their relationship? Who are their funders?"

Source

Murky waters indeed.
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  #14695  
Old 11.11.2018, 11:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Wow, you beat me to it - 'sincere' wow. He is an inveterate compulsive liar and opportunist of the worst possible kind!

.
"Sincere" in declaring his true political goal - get Great Britain out of EU. If someone told me that it's their main goal, and that since the '90s, I would have believed every single bit. I would have expected he's gonna use every single thing (honest or dishonest) he can to reach his goal.

Meantime, the duplicity of Cameron et.co was much more difficult to figure out. As in those discussions when you're genuine and give your point of view and you get side-tracked and manipulated into an area that is irrelevant to the discussion and also controversial, but you, unwillingly, fulfil someone else's agenda....never had that feeling before? I think they're similar - it's the feeling on manipulation...of being professionally manipulated.
The funny part is that UK got hit and it doesn't even know by whom! It wasn't (only) Farage...for sure.

I might have surprised you but you know what, I grew to appreciate this kind of "sincerity".
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  #14696  
Old 11.11.2018, 11:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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This chicken is not listed on their web site here.
I am seeing £2.75 online, rather than the £3.00 I claimed, thank you for pointing out I was overestimating the cost. Add peas & potatoes then your meal will cost under £1.00 a head including electricity. Of course convenience food also needs electricity to be warmed up.

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You've also got to have the money to be able to afford to cook the chicken. And buy stuff to go with the chicken. Some folk can't run the iron if they also want to boil a kettle: it simply costs too much. And yesI know neither of them cook a chicken.

If you have the money, if you and your partner are both working minimum wage shifts, you may just not have the time.

I'm sorry, you may know numbers and finance and stuff, but your finger is not on the pulse of the UK's economically deprived. Not a Scooby.

Back to Brexit... I hate to agree even in part with anyone sharing Boris genes but...
Cooking in an oven will cost about 30p, cooking in a microwave about 3p or an additional 1%. The issue is people got lazy & can AFFORD processed & fast food.
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  #14697  
Old 11.11.2018, 12:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Even Johnson Senior/father now agrees a 3 way vote is the only democratic option- with chaos/vassalage/remain options.
Well with JJ uttering those scary words that strikes fear and trepidation into the heart of many Brexit's,
I was just wondering how many vassal nations there are in Europe ?

Vassals of the EU
Norway
Switzerland
Iceland
Liechtenstein

Then surely these are vassals too ?
Andorra
Monaco
The Vatican
San Marino

So I wonder how citizens in countries like Switzerland have come to terms and adjusted to
being ( in Brexiteer eyes ) vassals of the EU, over these many years ?
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  #14698  
Old 11.11.2018, 12:49
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

The internet chicken point of view stems from this post earlier in the thread:

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The government voted on BREXIT & passed a law, so they know EXACTLY what they want & that's to leave on 31 March 2019.

I don't see many starving poor people, the population is somewhat overweight which would imply people can afford to eat more than they need which puts unnecessary strain on the NHS so double whammy.
At the time I asked how this is relevant to Brexit and leaving the UK but you just pressed on with...

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Cheap convenience food is not 'cheap'.........., the 'poor' are able to waste money on convenience food. A higher proportion of lower income people buy lottery tickets & smoke.
Still not seeing how Brexit is going to change this behaviour. Are you saying that convenience food will get more expensive whilst fresh (in this case for argument's sake) internet chicken will get cheaper so the lazy people can suddenly become less lazy, cook fresh and therefore maintain a healthy NHS-free existence?

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I am seeing £2.75 online, rather than the £3.00 I claimed, thank you for pointing out I was overestimating the cost. Add peas & potatoes then your meal will cost under £1.00 a head including electricity. Of course convenience food also needs electricity to be warmed up.

Cooking in an oven will cost about 30p, cooking in a microwave about 3p or an additional 1%. The issue is people got lazy & can AFFORD processed & fast food.
It comes to something when the argument for Brexit gets so far backed into a corner that disproportionate importance is placed on basically a few coppers of difference in fresh vs convenience food.

Seems to be as an appropriate metaphor as any at this stage.
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  #14699  
Old 11.11.2018, 13:12
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The internet chicken point of view stems from this post earlier in the thread:



At the time I asked how this is relevant to Brexit and leaving the UK but you just pressed on with...



Still not seeing how Brexit is going to change this behaviour. Are you saying that convenience food will get more expensive whilst fresh (in this case for argument's sake) internet chicken will get cheaper so the lazy people can suddenly become less lazy, cook fresh and therefore maintain a healthy NHS-free existence?



It comes to something when the argument for Brexit gets so far backed into a corner that disproportionate importance is placed on basically a few coppers of difference in fresh vs convenience food.

Seems to be as an appropriate metaphor as any at this stage.
Actually the metaphor is "Why did the chicken cross the road?" where Brexit is the chicken and the road is "the deal"
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  #14700  
Old 11.11.2018, 13:36
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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He's a single-issue politician but at least "sincere" in his own way - never fooled anyone or pretended he's something else than what he really is.

I would still like to see the injunction that prevented the media from reporting that he'd left his German wife and kids long before the referendum, and was shacked up with the far right French politician, Laure Ferrari. It looks as if only a second scorned mistress is willing to spill the beans on the sordid little man.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8063411.html
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