The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	Blueangel
	No, it isn't. You can search for it yourself... https://twitter.com/doctor_oxford?re...Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Slightly odd that this is being seen as a joke but there wasn't even a ripple over the 350 million quid for the NHS splashed on the side of the bus.

What is it they say about the truth being stranger than fiction..?

[greenmount]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	M&S used to just throw their old food stock at closing times, hardly surprising people were waiting, no doubt pesky EU H&S laws prevents this today.

Believe it or not, they are willing to enact laws against food waste.

https://ec.europa.eu/food/safety/foo.../eu_actions_en

[bigblue2]

It was more fear of being sued then H&S etc, as a student working at sainsbury's (many many years ago) we did used to donate the days left over bakery goods, sandwiches, meat etc to charity, but as we bagged them up in huge clear bin bag type bags they where scared of someone with a nut allergy or somesuch coming after them. We where told they had been sued already, which is why it was stopped but this was way pre internet so no idea if that was true.

Anyway we then still bagged it all up and carefully left it by the skips outside, and again we where told to stop through fear of being sued for the same reason.

So then we had to keep smelly old skips inside the loading bays inside the store and just throw the stuff un-bagged into them, we where also supposed to squash the stuff before hand too.

Even if you give the stuff away, or have it taken from your bin's the shop was apparently still ultimately responsible for it and they couldn't take the risk.

This was before 24 hour and sunday opening, the amount of food we had to throw away was staggering, we'd easily fill a skip on a sat.

	Quote:	greenmount
	Believe it or not, they are willing to enact laws against food waste. https://ec.europa.eu/food/safety/foo.../eu_actions_en

But no surprise to see FMF follow the Daily Mail approach to EU legislation - if it's negative believe it without checking and if it's not negative enough then just make it up.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Remind me again who changed their minds over the Treaty of Nice, and the Treaty of Lisbon?

Ireland has a sovereign people unlike the UK and specifically reserve all treaty decision to themselves alone, allowing the government to negotiate with the other member states but never committing the country. In essence the EU always ends up negotiating with the Irish people. And as such Ireland fully expects that they may have to hold multiple referendum in the course of the negotiations and with an enlarged EU it will become much more common, with Ireland, Denmark and France requiring referenda on treaty change.

Both Ireland and Denmark have got better deals because their people are in control and can bring the whole thing to a halt:

	Quote:
	With the Edinburgh Agreement, Denmark would have four opt-outs in the fields of European citizenship, economic and monetary union, defence policy, and justice and home affairs. Ireland, on the other hand, gained guarantees concerning its military neutrality with the Seville Declaration after the Nice referendum, and on the Irish commissioner, competency over tax rates, abortion, neutrality, and workers’ rights after the Lisbon referendum.

It is also worth pointing out that A50 was added during the treaty revisions necessitated as a result of Ireland’s rejection.

Now you can continue repeating you blatant lies all you wish, it reflects more on you than anything else.

	Quote:	st2lemans
	Is that one of those joke websites? Most of the stories on it are hilarious! Tom

I wonder if Odile realised the story was from August?

I like the way the story said ”she systematically shredded Farage’s claims, using a series of devastating facts and data.” when the doctor did no such thing. A load of anecdotal twaddle then the only number she tweeted in relation to Brexit was wrong.

Possibly even more relevant now, than in August. with No Deal looming large.

Medical supplies, medical research, medical innovation- are all at risk- and lives with them.

May seem like banter, but 3 blokes in a pub do explain how complex the issues are:

https://youtu.be/pl_v3l32hfQ

	Quote:
	Possibly even more relevant now, than in August. with No Deal looming large. Medical supplies, medical research, medical innovation- are all at risk- and lives with them. May seem like banter, but 3 blokes in a pub do explain how complex the issues are: https://youtu.be/pl_v3l32hfQ

Look what's opening today, despite Brexit.

Britain's first specialist wound hub to open

Let's face it though, for a long time, the NHS hasn't been at the forefront of using state of the art medical research. They only managed to do the first in utero surgery on a foetus suffering from spina bifida, a procedure that has been available for years in the US and on continental Europe. This is largely down to the inefficient model and sheer cost involved in keeping the NHS running.

The government has just pledged even more money to keep the NHS beast rolling, and within the next 20 years it'll account for 40% of public spending. Brexit or no Brexit, this is obviously unsustainable.

But let's get back to Brexit, the figures show that other than nurses, there's been no decrease in NHS staff from the EU since the Brexit vote. See here.



The decrease in EU nurses also likely has far more to do with language tests that were implemented around the same time as the Brexit vote, rather than any non-existent "racism". The two foreign countries that make up the most of non-British nurses are, surprise surprise, non-EU (India and Philippines) and the third is Ireland, whose people have a right to live and work in the UK thanks to agreements that long pre-exist the formation of the EU.

Midwife never delivered a baby because she could barely speak English
Difficulty of NHS language test ‘worsens nurse crisis’, say recruiters


So now you've been presented with the facts, will you now change your tune?

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Look what's opening today, despite Brexit. Britain's first specialist wound hub to open Let's face it though, for a long time, the NHS hasn't been at the forefront of using state of the art medical research. They only managed to do the first in utero surgery on a foetus suffering from spina bifida, a procedure that has been available for years in the US and on continental Europe. This is largely down to the inefficient model and sheer cost involved in keeping the NHS running. The government has just pledged even more money to keep the NHS beast rolling, and within the next 20 years it'll account for 40% of public spending. Brexit or no Brexit, this is obviously unsustainable. But let's get back to Brexit, the figures show that other than nurses, there's been no decrease in NHS staff from the EU since the Brexit vote. See here. The decrease in EU nurses also likely has far more to do with language tests that were implemented around the same time as the Brexit vote, rather than any non-existent "racism". The two foreign countries that make up the most of non-British nurses are, surprise surprise, non-EU (India and Philippines) and the third is Ireland, whose people have a right to live and work in the UK thanks to agreements that long pre-exist the formation of the EU. Midwife never delivered a baby because she could barely speak English Difficulty of NHS language test ‘worsens nurse crisis’, say recruiters So now you've been presented with the facts, will you now change your tune?

From your link to the House of Commons library "Data coverage of NHS nationality data has improved over time. Because of this, comparisons of the number of EU staff in the NHS over time should be made only with caution.
The data shows that there were 58,698 staff with recorded EU nationality in June 2016 and 63,065 in June 2018. But to present this as the full story would be misleading"

Despite these warnings you chose to make this comparison

From your link "37% of hospital doctors gained their primary medical qualification outside the UK. " so if you visit a NHS hospital around almost half the time you will be treated by a foreign national, clearly immigrants are very important for the UK!

My post was about the supplly of essential drugs, isotopes and EU research programmes, post Brexit.

Of course, both hauliers and pharmas have been gagged by the Government not to discuss any of the issues with the Press, the public, etc.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	The government has just pledged even more money to keep the NHS beast rolling, and within the next 20 years it'll account for 40% of public spending. Brexit or no Brexit, this is obviously unsustainable.

Slight problem...

	Quote:
	Number of nursing students in England down by 500 this year 20 September, 2018

https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/ed...026080.article

	Quote:
	But no surprise to see FMF follow the Daily Mail approach to EU legislation - if it's negative believe it without checking and if it's not negative enough then just make it up.

Don't worry, FMF will be the first person to admit his error and apologise for spreading misinformation, anything else would make him a massive hypocrite and we all know that can't be the case.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Don't worry, FMF will be the first person to admit his error and apologise for spreading misinformation, anything else would make him a massive hypocrite and we all know that can't be the case.

Indeed time will tell, can't wait till after BREXIT.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Indeed time will tell, can't wait till after BREXIT.

Time will tell us about a fact we already know to be true (UK ruled on food waste, not EU)? This is surreal.

If you've been on a 2 year troll, congratz, I applaud you heartily.

	Quote:	marton
	From your link "37% of hospital doctors gained their primary medical qualification outside the UK. " so if you visit a NHS hospital around almost half the time you will be treated by a foreign national, clearly immigrants are very important for the UK!

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Slight problem... https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/ed...026080.article

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall a single Brexiteer saying during the referendum campaign that there are "too many EU citizens working in the NHS". The only thing I've heard heard on the matter since the vote from both sides is the importance of allowing skilled migration to continue after Brexit.

	Quote:	marton
	From your link to the House of Commons library "Data coverage of NHS nationality data has improved over time. Because of this, comparisons of the number of EU staff in the NHS over time should be made only with caution. The data shows that there were 58,698 staff with recorded EU nationality in June 2016 and 63,065 in June 2018. But to present this as the full story would be misleading" Despite these warnings you chose to make this comparison

If you read further in the same paragraph that you quoted:

"...while it is likely that there has been an overall increase in the number of EU NHS staff since 2016, we cannot be sure about the scale of the change."

I am using the only data that is available. However even we take your point on board, this means there is no way of proving that the number of EU staff in the NHS has fallen since the Brexit vote. So this argument falls flat in both cases.

[greenmount]

	Quote:
	But no surprise to see FMF follow the Daily Mail approach to EU legislation - if it's negative believe it without checking and if it's not negative enough then just make it up.

In all fairness that's a common problem everywhere - people don't know much about the EU legislation. I can't blame FMF for having the same misconceptions so many people have. Daily Mail is just taking advantage of people's naivety and their natural tendency towards confirmation bias...while of course fulfilling their outrage quota. Outrage sells. And of course Daily Mail has a history of supporting far-right parties, please correct me if I'm wrong.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall a single Brexiteer saying during the referendum campaign that there are "too many EU citizens working in the NHS". The only thing I've heard heard on the matter since the vote from both sides is the importance of allowing skilled migration to continue after Brexit.

Happy to correct...

	Quote:	Jeremy Hunt in 2016
	Britain will train 1,500 more doctors every year The NHS will be “self-sufficient” within 10 years and not have to rely on foreign doctors, Jeremy Hunt said. The Health Secretary used his speech to the Conservative Party conference to announce plans to train up to 1,500 more doctors a year in England. Mr Hunt will end the 6,000-a-year cap on medical school students, allowing numbers to grow by as much as a quarter in 2018 and ensuring all young people with the capability to train as a doctor have the chance to do so.

	Quote:
	Happy to correct...

Yeah but you haven't.

Jeremy Hunt was a remainer.
He didn't say there were too many EU citizens working in the NHS.

[marton]

	Quote:
	Happy to correct...

"Mr Hunt will end the 6,000-a-year cap on medical school students, allowing numbers to grow by as much as a quarter in 2018 " so far as I can find out this did not happen; there was an increase of ca. 500 in 2018.

It ran into problems over who would fund the extra students, would overseas students also increase, which schools would take extra students &&&&

[Blueangel]

	Quote:
	Jo Johnson: Even Boris knows we’d be better in the EU than with this Brexit deal – let’s vote again The former minister has used his resignation to urge his fellow Tories to back the People's Vote campaign for another Brexit referendum

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/jo-j...te-referendum/
Errrmmm... I'm taking a moment to digest this. Coffee break I think...