The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Odile]

In the meantime, people in tax havens around the world, are gambling like crazy on Sterling.

[John William]

This nicely sums up today's events in a nutshell:

[Odile]

Watching here speech now.

Steven is great, he totally drowned out Rees-Mogg's interview this afternoon. He has been there for months!

[Sandgrounder]

Would be fascinating to see the final, all inclusive price tag to the tax payer once the UK finally signs off and limps out of the EU. Bet it’s substantially more than Nige’s bus-promise.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Just PR, an elected (smaller) upper house, smaller lower house and direct democracy will do nicely. We can ditch the monarchy and forget the written constitution. "National interest" has very different meanings for different people, which is why we have politics. Politicians that tend to do things which aren't what people want, but in what they believe are in their interests tend to find themselves out of a job. Which is why we're seeing a huge rise in the far right across Europe at the moment.

You forgot to mention the Greens are doing well too

[John William]

	Quote:	Odile
	Watching here speech now. Steven is great, he totally drowned out Rees-Mogg's interview this afternoon. He has been there for months!

Yes I hope to catch up with the Jacob Rees-Moggs interview on British Pathe news tonight.

[SOBEIT]

	Quote:	John William
	This nicely sums up today's events in a nutshell:

Folk still love to dream.

[Odile]

The complete deluded dreamers are those who believe there is still a 'middle deal' à la 'cake and eat it' - remain is definitely the only other option to MAy's deal.

And I despise Corbyn and O'Donnell, much more than Mrs May.

[SOBEIT]

I do despair....

[John William]

Well my take on today's events is this - that no matter whether your a Remainer or a Leaver -
the one thing that's glaringly obvious are that the Politicians who are 'not getting on with it !!'
( namely Brexit ) are the arch Brexiteers and their sympathisers.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	We will never know now, however I doubt the situation would be the same now if the UK: hadn't triggered Art 50 before contingency planning was finished hadn't triggered Art 50 before having a coherent negotiation strategy and knowing precisely what the UK wanted had made adequate no deal preparations hadn't accepted the EU sequencing of negotiations hadn't accepted the Irish backstop

Brexiteers couldn't wait for A50 to be triggered, even the 9-month preparatory phase was criticised as way too long. At the same time people pointing to the inadequate UK staff were dismissed as raising red herrings. As a result you got unfits like Davis and Raab in topmost positions.

The backstop is a sine qua non for any kind of deal, that's what it means to be small (Eire) but have lots of very strong supporters. The sequence of negotiations, preparation time, or people doing the negotiating, have exactly zero effect on that.

Coherence is irrelevant if it is simultaneously inacceptable for the counterparty. You know, like, wanting to be in the EEA without accepting the four freedoms and the ECJ's supremacy.

You're still in denial mode Loz. Even now. What's been bandied around and required from the UK governent amounts to squaring a circle, doesn't happen. Nor will it, as you just learned.

[marton]

	Quote:	John William
	Well my take on today's events is this - that no matter whether your a Remainer or a Leaver - the one thing that's glaringly obvious are that the Politicians who are 'not getting on with it !!' ( namely Brexit ) are the arch Brexiteers and their sympathisers.

Or to phrase it differently the Brexiteers were against the EU and so far against any announced version of a Brexit deal. The worst offender in my eyes was Boris who as Foreign Secretary had the best opportunity to guide a new Brexit deal but never did anything to achieve that.
No Brexiteer wanted to create a Brexit deal because they well knew the Leave voters did not have an unified set of expectations so whatever solution was proposed there would be significant push back.
Consequently they chose to sit on the side lines and snipe at the people trying to create a deal.

Whatever you might say against May she did try to create a deal even though it was an impossible task.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	marton
	Whatever you might say against May she did try to create a deal even though it was an impossible task.

Indeed, at least she tried to keep the shipwreck from happening. Power-hungry as she is, she's still got more and bigger cojones than all those hyenas like Farage, BoJo and Davis combined.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	marton
	Whatever you might say against May she did try to create a deal even though it was an impossible task.

She should have known that from the very beginning. Now the question is: will the deal be used for a remain or for a hard Brexit?

[John William]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	She should have known that from the very beginning. Now the question is: will the deal be used for a remain or for a hard Brexit?

I'm sure as far as Joe Public is concerned, who is no doubt getting fed up to the back teeth with
Brexit - is they would be much more inclined to go along with the deal that May's got, rather than
go with the 'what if deals' and 'it's all in the imagination deals' and half baked plans the Arch
Brexiteers can concoct but fail to come up with.

I get the feeling that the growing outcry on the failure of Westminster is to say - for Christ's sake,
get on with it !!

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Indeed, at least she tried to keep the shipwreck from happening. Power-hungry as she is, she's still got more and bigger cojones than all those hyenas like Farage, BoJo and Davis combined.

Totally agree there. She's definitely suffering 'the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune' and is surviving because nobody's got the balls to challenge her.

When I think back to Heseltine vs Thatcher, Rees-Mogg vs May is all very Sunday league. After the week she's had, I hope she gets some down time...

[Blueangel]

Reading through the odds of who could replace May if she is ousted, it's pretty sickening...

Dominic Raab 5/1
Sajid Javid 5/1
Boris Johnson 11/2
Jacob Rees-Mogg 8/1
Jeremy Hunt 8/1
David Davis 9/1
Michael Gove 9/1
Penny Mordaunt 16/1
Andrea Leadsom 16/1 Vile, horrid woman!
Matt Hancock 25/1

https://news.sky.com/story/who-could...as-pm-11495995

[John William]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Reading through the odds of who could replace May if she is ousted, it's pretty sickening... Dominic Raab 5/1 Sajid Javid 5/1 Boris Johnson 11/2 Jacob Rees-Mogg 8/1 Jeremy Hunt 8/1 David Davis 9/1 Michael Gove 9/1 Penny Mordaunt 16/1 Andrea Leadsom 16/1 Vile, horrid woman! Matt Hancock 25/1 https://news.sky.com/story/who-could...as-pm-11495995

Brexit plan wreckers the lot of them !! - more inclined to throw a spanner in the works, than
produce anything constructive.

[Blueangel]

Two things from tonight's viewing, Claire Perry, Minister of State for Energy and Clean Growth, gave one of the most disgraceful performances I've seen on Question Time in recent years.

Secondly, Dan Snow summed up how I feel exceptionally well...

How does this work?

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Totally agree there. She's definitely suffering 'the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune' and is surviving because nobody's got the balls to challenge her. When I think back to Heseltine vs Thatcher, Rees-Mogg vs May is all very Sunday league. After the week she's had, I hope she gets some down time...

It takes a lot of courage to accept this mission knowing so well that whatever will go wrong it will be her "fault". A certain segment of British media has made a raison d'être from bashing her mercilessly with all occasions. Quite an admirable woman regardless of our individual opinions about how she's handling the negotiation process.