The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Indeed, at least she tried to keep the shipwreck from happening. Power-hungry as she is, she's still got more and bigger cojones than all those hyenas like Farage, BoJo and Davis combined.

How? She's just reaping now what she's sown. She wanted to be PM. Which is where we come to one of the biggest loads of BS that's been spouted ever since the referendum. "Where is BoJo? Where is Farage to lead us out of this mess?". Well it's very simple, Farage can't become PM because he's from another party. BoJo went for the job as PM but didn't get it. Davis got a job as Brexit secretary but then had to quit, as Raab did, because Theresa May wouldn't allow (trust) them to do their job and handed the responsibility over to her (un-elected) civil servant Olly Robbins.

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Brexiteers couldn't wait for A50 to be triggered, even the 9-month preparatory phase was criticised as way too long. At the same time people pointing to the inadequate UK staff were dismissed as raising red herrings. As a result you got unfits like Davis and Raab in topmost positions. The backstop is a sine qua non for any kind of deal, that's what it means to be small (Eire) but have lots of very strong supporters. The sequence of negotiations, preparation time, or people doing the negotiating, have exactly zero effect on that. Coherence is irrelevant if it is simultaneously inacceptable for the counterparty. You know, like, wanting to be in the EEA without accepting the four freedoms and the ECJ's supremacy. You're still in denial mode Loz. Even now. What's been bandied around and required from the UK governent amounts to squaring a circle, doesn't happen. Nor will it, as you just learned.

How am I in denial? I've pointed out clear errors that have been made during this negotiation. These are basic mistakes that Theresa May has made time and again.

Whilst there were many Brexiteers like Farage who wanted to trigger Article 50 shortly after the vote, there were equally many who were happy to wait to get the house in order first. Indeed the Vote Leave campaign said during the referendum that they wouldn't trigger Article 50 until everything was in place.

I've no problem with agreeing to a backstop per se, what I do have a problem with is agreeing to the Irish backstop that Theresa May did so easily back in December last year, which she did so for no good reason. And then she had the naivety not have any input into the writing of the legal text that accompanied it.

The biggest mistake however is not making serious preparations for no deal. It's an absolute fact in any negotiation that when someone is prepared to walk away from the table, you take them a lot more seriously.

The bottom line is that Theresa May is a remainer. Her chancellor is a remainer and so is the majority of her cabinet. What was needed, and is needed now is for a Brexiteer to step forward and take ownership of this process.

Theresa May on LBC just now when asked where the £350 million for the NHS on the side of the bus is. "Actually it's going to be £394 million extra per week going to the NHS"



What do you say to that Odile?

[Swisstree]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Two things from tonight's viewing, Claire Perry, Minister of State for Energy and Clean Growth, gave one of the most disgraceful performances I've seen on Question Time in recent years. Secondly, Dan Snow summed up how I feel exceptionally well...

Did you hear Ken Clarke yesterday afternoon on BBC news channel? He was spot-on and lambasted the hard brexiteers, said the last thing we need is a Tory party leadership challenge.

Clarke's tweet this morning in the wee hours:

"I've been sat up in bed for hours, whisky on the bedside table, soft jazz playing in the background, trying to think if I've ever worked with a more idiotic bunch of self centred bastards in my nearly 50 years as a MP.

Nope, still can't think of any. Time for another bottle."

3:58 PM - 15 Nov 2018

	Quote:	greenmount
	It takes a lot of courage to accept this mission knowing so well that whatever will go wrong it will be her "fault". A certain segment of British media has made a raison d'être from bashing her mercilessly with all occasions. Quite an admirable woman regardless of our individual opinions about how she's handling the negotiation process.

May did amazingly yesterday, even if I don't agree with her. She will do alright re the media as she has the backing of the Daily Mail's new editor, Greig. Although, Osborne was gunning for her in the Evening Standard yesterday, I noticed.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Theresa May on LBC just now when asked where the £350 million for the NHS on the side of the bus is. "Actually it's going to be £394 million extra per week going to the NHS" What do you say to that Odile?

PM desperately clinging onto leadership spouts whatever bullshit she likes cos she'll probably be gone by Monday?

There's some debate now whether or not she meant "per year" rather than "per week", given that they have just quoted 400 mill boost in the recent budget.

But the shouty claim is funny, though.

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	PM desperately clinging onto leadership spouts whatever bullshit she likes cos she'll probably be gone by Monday? There's some debate now whether or not she meant "per year" rather than "per week", given that they have just quoted 400 mill boost in the recent budget. But the shouty claim is funny, though.

No, she meant "per week" because it's already been delivered in the last budget.

It's almost as if people never wanted the money, just something to shout about.

[JoeUK]

A 3.4% annual rise versus the 3.7% average that the NHS has been receiving since 1948 - partly funded by tax rises. Devil's in the detail.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	JoeUK
	A 3.4% annual rise versus the 3.7% average that the NHS has been receiving since 1948 - partly funded by tax rises. Devil's in the detail.

Which tax rises are you talking about? huge increase in Personal allowance & in Standard tax rate band in the budget!

[JoeUK]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Which tax rises are you talking about? huge increase in Personal allowance & in Standard tax rate band in the budget!

Plenty of budgets between now and 2024 when these increases are slated to be completed. This money will not be appearing from thin air?

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	No, she meant "per week" because it's already been delivered in the last budget. It's almost as if people never wanted the money, just something to shout about.

But it's not "extra" directly due to Brexit, though is it? It's a small percentage increase on the currently weekly spend. It's pretty dim to assume people "never wanted the money", it's just that some are less willing to fall for the mendacious bullshit being flung about to try to prop up the idea that Brexit is a good thing.

[baboon]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Which tax rises are you talking about? huge increase in Personal allowance & in Standard tax rate band in the budget!

The ones May talked about when announcing the increase. See

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-44495598

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	JoeUK
	Plenty of budgets between now and 2024 when these increases are slated to be completed. This money will not be appearing from thin air?

So your claim of tax rises was totally false, thanks for confirming

Oh & the Chinese want to invest a £billion in the UK
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/hs...9--sector.html

[baboon]

	Quote:
	Sky sources: All government whips have been told to cancel any engagements today and return to London as a source close to the whip's office says a no confidence vote in the Prime Minister is now "likely"

The entertainment continues

[StirB]

A whole two and a half weeks of NHS money? Oh Chinese ambassador, with these investments, you are really spoiling us.

[StirB]

	Quote:	baboon
	The ones May talked about when announcing the increase. See https://www.bbc.com/news/health-44495598

The problem with the Conservatives is that they will eventually run out of other people's money.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	StirB
	The problem with the Conservatives is that they will eventually run out of other people's money.

They never even attempted any austerity is the problem.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	They never even attempted any austerity is the problem.

They were not competent enough to make austerity work, is closer to reality.

[baboon]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Theresa May on LBC just now when asked where the £350 million for the NHS on the side of the bus is. "Actually it's going to be £394 million extra per week going to the NHS" What do you say to that Odile?

I would say that the issue with the £350 million is that it was completely fictitious anyway. Given it didn't count the UK rebate (which was deducted before the payment was made) and also didn't take into account EU spending in the UK (which will pretty well all have to be replaced) the number was a fantasy.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	They were not competent enough to make austerity work, is closer to reality.

They increased spending every year, with austerity you would save money, that never happened as they did not have the guts to do it properly. Shame Mrs Thatcher can't come back to sort it out.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	They increased spending every year, with austerity you would save money, that never happened as they did not have the guts to do it properly. Shame Mrs Thatcher can't come back to sort it out.

Careful what you wish for. With Thatcher any sniff of leaving the EU would have been stamped out before it gained even minimal traction.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	Careful what you wish for. With Thatcher any sniff of leaving the EU would have been stamped out before it gained even minimal traction.

She would have got us a good deal, so we would not have had to leave in the first place.