The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Odile
	Don't want to go back- or certainly don't want to be forced back. Yes, my daughters and grandchildren will have the choice - with access to Irish and Swiss passports...

You won't be forced to do anything, as you have lived most of your Adult life in the UK you must actually have liked living there, you even got a UK passport.

I thought you had said earlier in the thread they were all high flying bankers who were relocating to Europe, so would be closer to you?

[bowlie]

“Contempt of Parliament” appears to be the phrase of the day. Can anyone relate the legal consequences for the PM should she lose such a motion?

(Although I doubt it would get that far)

[MusicChick]

Lots of people cannot afford to retire in CH, for various reasons. I fail to see how should that be of any concerns to the UK government right at this point.

There are relatively few places that the Brits might not be able to retire, their currency is still lush. Try coming from a place that does not permit to retire anywhere else, because the currency will always be peanuts no matter how hard or loyally people worked.

[Odile]

Well we could afford it, very well- because of where we chose to live, where property is really cheap. But with a massive drop in Sterling value, which is likely to be further exarcerbated by Brexit - things have changed. Not many, I'd say no-one, could antitcipate at 50%, 60% and possibly 70% drop in income. We didn't choose Switzerland out of a hat either- but this is where I was born and bred- and where my very elderly parents need help and support. I can assure you no-one could have worked harder and more loyally than my OH, for sure. We will be OK, we always will be ok - at 68 and soon 73- I can go back to work- got lots of ideas and the ideal set-up. And we have plan B, C, D and a few more.

But you are right, it is not the concern of the UK Government- but I was asked for how we are being affected- so I answered.

For us anyhow, it is not about our income- it is about the best way to fight for the environment, for security, for international research, for freedom of movement, and so much more - for the best way to stand our ground against bullies like Trump and Putin (there is a good reason why they interfered- because they want us divided and weak) - and the rise of the far right and fascism.

[Troublawesome]

It matters little what non residents want. Little Englanders are convinced they are better off outside so they need to test their own medicine in a world where Trump treats them like dirt and their old allies now turn into competitors for the companies that used to be in EU ground and now want to remain in EU territory.


Some countries only learn the hard way, the ridiculous part is that the UK had it all: spoiled to the bone with rebates, non-Schenhen, no euro, special treaties, hardly any war refugees, got the best educated immigrants etc


I worry now for those left behind, when the EU dragon is gone who is going to be scapegoated next. Working class will take the beating of a century as all the laws will be dismantled, 0-hour contracts will be remembered with nostalgia compared to what's to come.


No deal is guaranteed. EU has its own problems to solve and by ending this now it makes a clean slate to move forward, no one is interested in protracted negotiations for another few years.


No deal now and the UK goes back begging for immediate treaties for skies, energy, transport etc. EU will be in a much bigger negotiating power when the UK has lorries queued until Essex, the concessions then will be much higher than now.


I only hope Boris or Jacob become PM. The country deserves to have one of them running it for the cycle to really complete.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	That’s your own fault though, not Brexit’s. Who did you have to blame after the 2008 financial crash when the Swiss Franc’s value against the pound went up by about 30%? If you choose to live in another country from that from which you draw your pension then you have to accept the risks that come with it. It’s the same for all us foreigners living in Switzerland. You should always have a Plan B.

Bollocks. You're sure you'll have a fat pension to live on even if you go back to UK. Plan B is to either go back home or to a cheap(er) country, I suppose. Well, imagine what if you can't do that (no agreements with EU) and you can't stay in CH either because a new Schwarzenbach will come to power and think all your contribution and your life in CH means nothing. All those years you used your education to make a living here and be a member of society here will mean nothing for some politician or party. You think you're safe and it cannot happen to a British citizen, of course.....well, I wouldn't be so sure. Careful what you wish for...

[bowlie]

	Quote:	bowlie
	“Contempt of Parliament” appears to be the phrase of the day. Can anyone relate the legal consequences for the PM should she lose such a motion? (Although I doubt it would get that far)

Wiki:

	Quote:
	MPs accused of Contempt of Parliament may be suspended or expelled. They may also be committed to the clock tower of the Palace of Westminster, although this practice has not been used since Charles Bradlaugh was detained in 1880. Strangers (those who are not members of the House) may be committed to prison during the life of the Parliament. The House of Lords has the power to fine as well as to order imprisonment for a term of years.

In other words. “Lock her up, lock her up, LOCK HER UP”!

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	Odile
	Well we could afford it, very well- because of where we chose to live, where property is really cheap. But with a massive drop in Sterling value, which is likely to be further exarcerbated by Brexit - things have changed. Not many, I'd say no-one, could antitcipate at 50%, 60% and possibly 70% drop in income. We didn't choose Switzerland out of a hat either- but this is where I was born and bred- and where my very elderly parents need help and support. I can assure you no-one could have worked harder and more loyally than my OH, for sure. We will be OK, we always will be ok - at 68 and soon 73- I can go back to work- got lots of ideas and the ideal set-up. And we have plan B, C, D and a few more. But you are right, it is not the concern of the UK Government- but I was asked for how we are being affected- so I answered. For us anyhow, it is not about our income- it is about the best way to fight for the environment, for security, for international research, for freedom of movement, and so much more - for the best way to stand our ground against bullies like Trump and Putin (there is a good reason why they interfered- because they want us divided and weak) - and the rise of the far right and fascism.

People will try to challenge this I think..it is a good process, in a quality dialogue or a debate.

The concept of entitlement or a right to a free movement, for example, and have somebody else sponsor it for one ( degree recognitions, govs creating space for new comers and all they need, work permits, etc. these are all expensive processes) is relatively new. People were "free" to roam before but nothing was secured for them, no bilaterals covering their backs.

When mobility actually sanctions the population that is supposed to benefit from all this (brain drain, lowering down the medial salary due to frontaliers, etc.) then the well marketed and sold ideas of "free" anything starts to stink. It is not just this. Free trade? Globalisation and local businesses closing. Free schooling? Forget that grads stick around and invest back in communities. Free health? Well. Docs don't get paid and the govs still spiral to enormous debts.

People should learn from the effed up pseudo socialist experiments in the past, and no it is not a move towards fascism as you put up there. Talking of one's retirement is a bit far from godwin.

[Troublawesome]

When they get the next Labour government with Corbyn at the head as a result of Brexit they will. Oh believe me they will.

	Quote:	MusicChick
	When mobility actually sanctions the population that is supposed to benefit from all this (brain drain, lowering down the medial salary due to frontaliers, etc.) then the well marketed and sold ideas of "free" anything starts to stink.

Ironic, as the destination of all the brain drain was the UK. 100s of thousands of immigrants with Msc/Phd went to the UK after their own countries spent a fortune to educate them, then they created wealth and paid taxes in the UK which didn't pay anything for them.


Salaries also went up after the UK entered the EU and many Brits enjoyed opportunities abroad they never would think possible.


But why let reality get in the way of some sentimental analysis based on emotions and not facts, right?

[John William]

	Quote:	Troublawesome
	It matters little what non residents want. Little Englanders are convinced they are better off outside so they need to test their own medicine in a world where Trump treats them like dirt and their old allies now turn into competitors for the companies that used to be in EU ground and now want to remain in EU territory. Some countries only learn the hard way, the ridiculous part is that the UK had it all: spoiled to the bone with rebates, non-Schenhen, no euro, special treaties, hardly any war refugees, got the best educated immigrants etc I worry now for those left behind, when the EU dragon is gone who is going to be scapegoated next. Working class will take the beating of a century as all the laws will be dismantled, 0-hour contracts will be remembered with nostalgia compared to what's to come. No deal is guaranteed. EU has its own problems to solve and by ending this now it makes a clean slate to move forward, no one is interested in protracted negotiations for another few years. No deal now and the UK goes back begging for immediate treaties for skies, energy, transport etc. EU will be in a much bigger negotiating power when the UK has lorries queued until Essex, the concessions then will be much higher than now. I only hope Boris or Jacob become PM. The country deserves to have one of them running it for the cycle to really complete.

Yes maybe Jacob Rees-Mogg and Boris Johnson will finally oust Che Guevara for those young and old
Brexit lovers, Counter Revolutionary symbols of the 21st century.
No doubt finding pride of place in many Students Dorms !!


Che is Out:





Moggers is In:

[Odile]

Don't want either - but if it is a choice, give me pseudo socialism any day if the other choice is fascism.

[Troublawesome]

Apparently the direction of the UK is towards JRM or Bojo or Corbyn.


Brexit will be the least of their problems soon. I can't imagine all those poor Leave regions benefiting either way, seems like they will be hit the hardest.


The problem is that the EU will have its own problems by then and no one will want to reopen this wound. When out, I'm afraid they'll be out for a generation.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	Troublawesome
	I worry now for those left behind, when the EU dragon is gone..

This. I am completely with you on this.

But look at the little countries being "helped" by the dragon now, we cannot even say those left behind actually exist to not be sanctioned by the dragon. Things suck and we aren't allowed to make our own diagnostics. Surprise surprise.

Dragon gone and people should (yes, ideally) get the attention from decentralized and local communities focused leadership way faster than from a moloch dragon that only secures constant conflict of interests.

There is a reason why people want to retire here. No dragons. Local investments, local leadership and willingness of all (or large portion) to accept that there is no free lunch.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	Troublawesome
	When they get the next Labour government with Corbyn at the head as a result of Brexit they will. Oh believe me they will. Ironic, as the destination of all the brain drain was the UK. 100s of thousands of immigrants with Msc/Phd went to the UK after their own countries spent a fortune to educate them, then they created wealth and paid taxes in the UK which didn't pay anything for them.

Exactly. Why should I actually like this?

	Quote:
	Salaries also went up after the UK entered the EU and many Brits enjoyed opportunities abroad they never would think possible. But why let reality get in the way of some sentimental analysis based on emotions and not facts, right?

I am talking about brain drained areas, darlin'. They exist. Those left behind.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	This. I am completely with you on this. But look at the little countries being "helped" by the dragon now, we cannot even say those left behind actually exist to not be sanctioned by the dragon. Things suck and we aren't allowed to make our own diagnostics. Surprise surprise. Dragon gone and people should (yes, ideally) get attention from decentralized and local communitirs focused leadership way faster than from a moloch dragon that only secures constant conflict of interests. There is a reason why people want to retire here. No dragons. Local investments, local leadership and willingness of all (or large portion) to accept that there is no free lunch.

I think you misunderstood that post, to be honest.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Troublawesome
	When out, I'm afraid they'll be out for a generation.

It is unlikely that the UK in its current form will ever rejoin. To do so would require a referendum in Ireland and it is extremely unlikely that an Irish government would ever agree to even put such a proposal to the Irish people with a United Ireland having been achieved.

[Odile]

He puts it rather well- yep, nobody has the f.... oggiest.

https://www.facebook.com/TheLondonEc...7508315532760/

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Odile
	He puts it rather well- yep, nobody has the f.... oggiest. https://www.facebook.com/TheLondonEc...7508315532760/

It would appear the commons want a hard BREXIT.

[Odile]

Oh no they do not ... yes pantomime season.

[Odile]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	You won't be forced to do anything, as you have lived most of your Adult life in the UK you must actually have liked living there, you even got a UK passport.

We could be forced to because of finances. As for family - they are waiting to see how things will turn out in the next few months ... they have all the options open to them- they are VERY lucky.