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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #15481  
Old 11.12.2018, 10:24
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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That's a bold assumption considering most of the polls point to the referendum sliding significantly in favour of Remain, if it were held again.
Unless Remain can come up with something other than Project Fear (they won't) then I'd put large money on Leave winning again.
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  #15482  
Old 11.12.2018, 10:26
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Which would have the same result as the first.
Absolutely nothing to lose by holding a second referendum, then, is there?!
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  #15483  
Old 11.12.2018, 10:27
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Unless Remain can come up with something other than Project Fear (they won't) then I'd put large money on Leave winning again.
I'll go ten bob each way
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  #15484  
Old 11.12.2018, 10:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

There are more roadshows planned by the British embassy in 2019 for those of you who are interested.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/b...in-switzerland
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  #15485  
Old 11.12.2018, 10:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Unless Remain can come up with something other than Project Fear (they won't) then I'd put large money on Leave winning again.
I don't think Remain has to do anything. The general feeling seems to be that it is such a clusterfeck, along with a big neon sign that the government cannot win any kind of a deal which benefits the country.

It doesn't need any meaningful campaigning - it's basically selling itself.
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  #15486  
Old 11.12.2018, 10:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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But I've been thinking over the last few weeks that May has been playing a clever game, I've actually had some sneaky admiration for the way she has stuck at it and got an agreement, probably the only one that could possibly work. But of course parliament will reject it and she'll just hold up her hands and say "Ok, I've done my best, there isn't a better agreement possible, what do you want to do? Let's ask the people again!"
You seem to be implying that there is such a thing as a good deal.

Considering that the EU won't scratch the four freedoms and won't accept any inner-EU borders, that the Good Friday agreement is to be kept, and all the other restrictions but also arrangements that need to persist, including severe time constraints:

What would a good deal look like to you?

Last edited by Urs Max; 11.12.2018 at 10:51.
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  #15487  
Old 11.12.2018, 10:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I don't think Remain has to do anything. The general feeling seems to be that it is such a clusterfeck, along with a big neon sign that the government cannot win any kind of a deal which benefits the country.

It doesn't need any meaningful campaigning - it's basically selling itself.
Not really, unlike Remainers, most Brexiteers don't fear no deal. Plus the campaign writes itself: We were led by an incompetent Remainer who made a litany of errors, the first vote is now being betrayed, the development of the EU and its countries since 2016 has done nothing to encourage remaining, all the terrible things that were said would happen if the UK left so far haven't materialised...
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  #15488  
Old 11.12.2018, 10:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Not really, unlike Remainers, most Brexiteers don't fear no deal. Plus the campaign writes itself: We were led by an incompetent Remainer who made a litany of errors, the first vote is now being betrayed, the development of the EU and its countries since 2016 has done nothing to encourage remaining, all the terrible things that were said would happen if the UK left so far haven't materialised...
But the polls have consistently indicated that Remain is ahead month on month. I just randomly picked 7 or 8 to view from Google.

The reason the "terrible things" haven't materialised yet is because the UK is still in the EU. Basically that line of argument is, for the time being, totally irrelevant.

Also, you can't make such sweeping statements about Brexiteers, either. Because it was a binary "In or Out" vote, Brexit is all things to all people. Not every Brexiteer wanted the same thing - extremists presumably envisioned a strict no deal but others were just voting to clip the wings of the EU to give them their bent bananas and limit their immigration to the nice Polish lady that paints nails in the village and the German nurse that works in the local hospital.
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  #15489  
Old 11.12.2018, 10:56
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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[..]We were led by an incompetent Remainer who made a litany of errors, the first second vote is now being betrayed, the development of the EU and its countries since 2016 has done nothing to encourage remaining, all the terrible things that were said would happen if the UK left so far haven't materialised...
FTFY

I've been informed by this board that there already was a vote in 1975 or thereabouts.
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  #15490  
Old 11.12.2018, 10:56
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Brexit - the submarine made of cheese...

Boom!
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  #15491  
Old 11.12.2018, 10:57
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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But the polls have consistently indicated that Remain is ahead month on month. I just randomly picked 7 or 8 to view from Google.
The polls said the same thing before the first referendum. Really, if the second vote comes up, which I'm still not convinced it will, then it'll be the same as the first. Remember, I'm never wrong.
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Old 11.12.2018, 10:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The polls said the same thing before the first referendum. Really, if the second vote comes up, which I'm still not convinced it will, then it'll be the same as the first. Remember, I'm never wrong.
Is Phos coaching you?
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  #15493  
Old 11.12.2018, 11:02
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Brexit got lots of votes first time round from folks affected by austerity in their communities and the cut back of essential services. They bought the line that it's the EU rather than the Government putting the squeeze on the finances. Everyone has since woken up to the lies Osborne & Cameron peddled, which May failed to address and allowed Osborne's policies to sit.

Not only that, they have made a complete and utter shambles of Brexit - starting with Cameron's simple yes, no referendum. So, next referendum will fall to the Remain, a clear indication of no confidence in the government and an understanding that the UK will be worse off with Brexit.
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Old 11.12.2018, 11:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You seem to be implying that there is such a thing as a good deal.

Considering that the EU won't scratch the four freedoms and won't accept any inner-EU borders, that the Good Friday agreement is to be kept, and all the other restrictions but also arrangements that need to persist, including severe time constraints:

What would a good deal look like to you?
Stay in the EU!
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  #15495  
Old 11.12.2018, 11:06
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Is Phos coaching you?
Miss Phos
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  #15496  
Old 11.12.2018, 11:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Miss Phos
Sorry, I always thought he was a bloke.
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Old 11.12.2018, 11:12
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Brexit got lots of votes first time round from folks affected by austerity in their communities and the cut back of essential services. They bought the line that it's the EU rather than the Government putting the squeeze on the finances. Everyone has since woken up to the lies Osborne & Cameron peddled, which May failed to address and allowed Osborne's policies to sit.
Yeah, whatever. If you really want to see poor standards of living and inequality in the UK then visit your nearest Labour safe-seat. Keep them needy, keep them poor, keep on telling them that a few privileged rich people are to blame. Decades of voting Labour and still in the same shit as before. And what's more, they still believe that Labour is their only hope.

Back in the real world:

For August to October 2018, 75.7% of people aged 16 to 64 were in paid work – the joint highest employment rate since records began in 1971

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Old 11.12.2018, 11:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. The issue is dead simple... If Cameron had supported Leave, Remain would have had a landslide victory.
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  #15499  
Old 11.12.2018, 11:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

They didn't have zero-hour contracts in 1971.
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Old 11.12.2018, 11:24
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Unless Remain can come up with something other than Project Fear (they won't) then I'd put large money on Leave winning again.
It does not work like that. Look at the referenda in Denmark and Ireland, the emphasizes will be on the failure to deliver on the previous winning promises - the future is no longer an unknown and ‘trust me it is going to be great’ does not fly.

The BREXITEERS will have to address the facts:
- The failure to take leadership to deliver the last time
- The poor deal actually obtained after negotiations with the EU
- The poor deal actually obtained on the open skies replacement from the USA
- The actual objections at the WTO to the U.K. trade schedules
And so on.

The Danish and Irish experience suggests that if it happens a second referendum will not be a rerun of the first one and the emphasis will be on the previous winners having to explain the reality of their previous dreams.
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