The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Under WTO rules there would be no need to have a hard border. Both Ireland and the UK have said that in the event of a no deal Brexit they wouldn't erect a hard border. This is a load of bullshit that has been exploited by Ireland and the EU to gain leverage in the exit negotiations and the spastics in UK government fell for it hook line and sinker.

Good diversion but from your link

	Quote:
	Edgar Morgenroth, professor of economics at Dublin City University, said the WTO’s position on the Irish Border was “utterly irrelevant” as, in the absence of a deal, the onus would be on the EU and UK to protect their own respective markets against smuggling or divergent rules on the opposite side of a border.

[22 yards]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	They may have had a point if May had been elected in, as it was she became leader by default.

It's exactly the same point as I've made several times and that you are unable to rebut: the UK holds general elections periodically. According to you, that's unnecessary and undemocratic, as the people have made their choice already so another election should not happen.

That makes no sense to any sane individual. A second Brexit referendum makes complete sense to any sane individual.

	Quote:	22 yards
	It's exactly the same point as I've made several times and that you are unable to rebut: the UK holds general elections periodically. According to you, that's unnecessary and undemocratic, as the people have made their choice already so another election should not happen. That makes no sense to any sane individual. A second Brexit referendum mskes complete sense to any sane individual.

This no-confidence motion has nothing to do with the General Election, regardless I've said on many occasions, a second referendum only makes sense after the result of the first has been carried out. I've also said that if there is a second then we can demand a third.

	Quote:	marton
	Good diversion but from your link

You didn't read what I wrote in full, did you?

[curley]

	Quote:	22 yards
	...... A second Brexit referendum mskes complete sense to any sane individual.

It does?


curley, the insane.

[22 yards]

	Quote:	curley
	It does? curley, the insane.

Depends whether you believe democracy is a sane choice, or not.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	This no-confidence motion has nothing to do with the General Election, regardless I've said on many occasions, a second referendum only makes sense after the result of the first has been carried out. I've also said that if there is a second then we can demand a third.

The difference is that a new vote which results in Remain, couldn't really be challenged because that is actually workable. The current result is totally unworkable otherwise it wouldn't be the mess it is now.

The point to my tongue in cheek tweet was that May was indeed voted in, in this case by her parliamentary colleagues, some of whom now seem to want to change the result because they don't like it.

Oddly enough they don't seem to be like being told to "suck it up, it's what they voted for".

[Odile]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Not two years ago she didn't. Right back at you.

So tell us, please, oh wise one- who would be your choice to take over

who would be your choice to re-unify the country and get the best deal since sliced bread? Pray tell.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Baboon
	The UK is a much larger country with a relatively small number of entry points - one of which (Dover) completely dominates. Take all the Swiss entry points, multiply by about 4 times and you roughly have a Dover.

Basel/Weil a.R. alone handles 1mln trucks each year, vs (according to Wiki) 2.6mln handled by Dover.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	a second referendum only makes sense after the result of the first has been carried out.

There is no way back after BREXIT. Do you really behave the same way in real life... once you have made a decision just keep on going, even when you have some doubts about your decision, never stop to check just in case... just wait until you hit the wall so you can be sure you made the wrong decision...

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	This no-confidence motion has nothing to do with the General Election, regardless I've said on many occasions, a second referendum only makes sense after the result of the first has been carried out. I've also said that if there is a second then we can demand a third.

Actually the Brexit vote was the 2nd vote on UK's EU membership. Trying to limit the number of votes to two is completely arbitrary.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	There is no way back after BREXIT. Do you really behave the same way in real life... once you have made a decision just keep on going, even when you have some doubts about your decision, never stop to check just in case... just wait until you hit the wall so you can be sure you made the wrong decision...

We've got a secretary in the office like that. Painful.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	22 yards
	Depends whether you believe democracy is a sane choice, or not.

You organize a referendum about a topic.
There is an outcome.
You start to work on implementing the outcome.
Instead of actually implementing it, you do another voting on the same topic.
Totally makes sense.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	22 yards
	That makes no sense to any sane individual. A second Brexit referendum makes complete sense to any sane individual.

To most Irish people it would be a joke, since it would only be a glorified opinion poll! You need a general election which will give the authority to the government to actually authority to carry out the decision. Not another referendum farce.

[StirB]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	You organize a referendum about a topic. There is an outcome. You start to work on implementing the outcome. Instead of actually implementing it, you do another voting on the same topic. Totally makes sense.

When did that happen, then?

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	You organize a referendum about a topic. There is an outcome. You start to work on implementing the outcome. Instead of actually implementing it, you do another voting on the same topic. Totally makes sense.

Why are you surprised..

It puts a nice spin to all sorts of visions of democracy, n'est pas.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	You organize a referendum about a topic. There is an outcome. You start to work on implementing the outcome. Instead of actually implementing it, you do another voting on the same topic. Totally makes sense.

This might explain the complexities (and insanity) of it all.

The "outcome" as you put it, wasn't thought through at the time of the referendum. It's basically unworkable.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Under WTO rules there would be no need to have a hard border. Both Ireland and the UK have said that in the event of a no deal Brexit they wouldn't erect a hard border. This is a load of bullshit that has been exploited by Ireland and the EU to gain leverage in the exit negotiations and the spastics in UK government fell for it hook line and sinker.

The BS here is all yours, or to be more accurate some one else you have mindlessly cut and pasted. There is no requirement under WTO rules for a hard border, but under most favored nation requirements you either have a border with Ireland or open borders for all.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	This might explain the complexities (and insanity) of it all. The "outcome" as you put it, wasn't thought through at the time of the referendum. It's basically unworkable.

That's the tricky bit to tell the people though, isn't it ? The requirement of no border in Ireland but separation from the EU is impossible. You can't implement it.

So the message to the people that really has to be given is: "the EU thing, which we joined in the 70's, we can't leave it."

It's a perfectly fair message. not one everyone will like, but with the Ireland situation, its the message. We just need someone to deliver it.

	Quote:	Jim2007
	There is no way back after BREXIT. Do you really behave the same way in real life... once you have made a decision just keep on going, even when you have some doubts about your decision, never stop to check just in case... just wait until you hit the wall so you can be sure you made the wrong decision...

I have absolutely no doubts whatsoever that Brexit is the correct decision.