The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:
	So tell us, please, oh wise one- who would be your choice to take over who would be your choice to re-unify the country and get the best deal since sliced bread? Pray tell.

I think Caroline Lucas should take over. If there's anyone who could cancel Brexit and re-unify the country it's her.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Mikers
	That's the tricky bit to tell the people though, isn't it ? The requirement of no border in Ireland but separation from the EU is impossible. You can't implement it. So the message to the people that really has to be given is: "the EU thing, which we joined in the 70's, we can't leave it." It's a perfectly fair message. not one everyone will like, but with the Ireland situation, its the message. We just need someone to deliver it.

You can perfectly well leave the EU but it is a revolution type of change, not a smooth transition. There are hard choices to be made with possible huge consequences, especially on short term.

	Quote:	MusicChick
	Why are you surprised.. It puts a nice spin to all sorts of visions of democracy, n'est-ce- pas.

https://newsthump.com/2018/12/12/tor...EHfdxBvV2HJYP4

It goes a bit like this. Dad says we will move to new house. He passes by a nice house, and takes us to see it and asks us if we want to move there. Half the family says yes, including the son who is a teenager, and granny who lives upstairs.- the rest says no thanks. So decision is made to buy it.

Then it transpires the Estate Agent lied massively about the shared access, and the state of the plumbing, the electrics, the wood worm and the dry rot - and the leak in the pool. And that dad had not really done any research beforehand to find out about the above- and that the owner's sister in the USA had romised a large sum of money to the estate agent's if he could sell it quickly, before the prospective buyers could find out about all the defects...

Most of the family realises it is not such a good place after all, would cost massively to repair - and that the current house, despite not being perfect, is actually much much better- and decide to stay put- and improve the current house instead. Teenager is 18 now- and granny has popped her clogs. Phhheeewww. Simple.

	Quote:	k_and_e
	You can perfectly well leave the EU but it is a revolution type of change, not a smooth transition. There are hard choices to be made with possible huge consequences, especially on short term.

Yup. And THAT is the bit that nobody knew about. It's too big a price to pay for most people (unless you are living the charmed life in Switzerland away from all the shite, and just viewing the circus from a pleasantly disconnected position, obvs ), which is why a fresh vote with fresh eyes is the way forward.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	I have absolutely no doubts whatsoever that Brexit is the correct decision.

If you have no doubts, you really haven't examined the situation with any intellectual rigour whatsoever. Anyone who is 100% Leave or Remain is a bit simple.

	Quote:
	If you have no doubts, you really haven't examined the situation with any intellectual rigour whatsoever. Anyone who is 100% Leave or Remain is a bit simple.

I don't know if you saw it, but sitting on the fence wasn't an option on the ballot paper.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	I don't know if you saw it, but sitting on the fence wasn't an option on the ballot paper.

Would be an interesting point if the thread was called "Which box on the Brexit ballot should I tick", but it isn't, so enough strawman please.

Also, not voting or spoiling your ballot is sitting on the fence, so, try again, I guess.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:
	Yup. And THAT is the bit that nobody knew about. It's too big a price to pay for most people (unless you are living the charmed life in Switzerland away from all the shite, and just viewing the circus from a pleasantly disconnected position, obvs), which is why a fresh vote with fresh eyes is the way forward.

That's even worse. You assume that people can't think over consequences.


The question is more if the first country that will leave the EU, will do it in an article 50 style or a kind of leaving the USSR style.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:
	I Anyone who is 100% Leave or Remain is a bit simple.

Then I'm a bit simple, despite having listened to, and overanalysed all the Leave points. I believe in change from the inside out.

Apparently, 128 Tory MPs have pledged their support to May.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Then I'm a bit simple, despite having listened to, and overanalysed all the Leave points. Apparently, 128 Tory MPs have pledged their support to May.

I say this as a staunch Remainer, but if you don't think Leave has some valid points, worth considering, then I think you're at best blinkered.

Corbyn played a blinder at PMQs just now.

[Blueangel]

It's a balancing act and always has been, but no single point has been enough to change my mind. A European army is a tricky idea at best, but you need to be at the table.

[bigblue2]

lol @ a European army, 1st question - what language should be used? given the intelligence of the average squaddie and the stubbornness of the countries involved it'll never happen.

Kenneth Clarke - PMQs (the voice of reason) can't think of anything, in this grave national crisis, as unhelpful, irrelevant and irresponsible for the tory party to embark on a leadership challenge, with much applause and cheers from the house.

[bowlie]

	Quote:	bigblue2
	lol @ a European army, 1st question - what language should be used? given the intelligence of the average squaddie and the stubbornness of the countries involved it'll never happen.

Ever hear of the Swiss armed forces? Or the Belgium, Spanish?? I think language is not the biggest challenge here.

So if May wins, it's still not going to stop there. Her deal isn't getting through Parliament, the DUP could still pull their support, if Labour move for a vote of no confidence then there could be a chance of the disgruntled Tory Brexiteers getting it through. This would mean another General Election with May leading the party. Surely the Tories must see this is suicide?

[bowlie]

Does anyone here think that any of the 27 would agree to a delay of the Article 50 notification?

Greece might, if they get their marbles back,
Cyprus might, if they get the Bases back,
Spain might ....

They may not have a veto on withdrawal of the UK notice, but there is no way they are going to agree to extend the agony.

[bigblue2]

	Quote:	bowlie
	Ever hear of the Swiss armed forces? Or the Belgium, Spanish?? I think language is not the biggest challenge here.

not the biggest no, but the one that will mean it'll never happen.

Hey, you french squaddies, you must speak german now - just see how that goes down. (works just as well with italians too)

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	bowlie
	Does anyone here think that any of the 27 would agree to a delay of the Article 50 notification? Greece might, if they get their marbles back, Cyprus might, if they get the Bases back, Spain might .... They may not have a veto on withdrawal of the UK notice, but there is no way they are going to agree to extend the agony.

Greece has a fragile economy that can't take a hit
Italy has a fragile economy that can't take a hit
France has a fragile economy that can't take a hit
Spain has a fragile economy that can't take a hit


What do you think they would do if a hard Brexit might become a reality?

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Basel/Weil a.R. alone handles 1mln trucks each year, vs (according to Wiki) 2.6mln handled by Dover.

Actually Dover is roughly 4 million including the tunnel.

Basel is more than I expected - but does often have huge truck queues apparently. See the below as one example
https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/baden-...renze-100.html