The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Greece has a fragile economy that can't take a hit Italy has a fragile economy that can't take a hit France has a fragile economy that can't take a hit Spain has a fragile economy that can't take a hit What do you think they would do if a hard Brexit might become a reality?

By far the biggest hit would be on the UK economy however.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	That's even worse. You assume that people can't think over consequences. The question is more if the first country that will leave the EU, will do it in an article 50 style or a kind of leaving the USSR style.

Why do you compare it with USSR? Countries that make up the EU weren't forced to be part of it. They joined voluntarily to enjoy some advantages. If they leave, they'll lose all those thing they joined for (or maybe not). You think that's USSR style? I suggest you read more history books.

I'm long past thinking affectionately about EU, EU nations and all that, but seriously....let's put things into perspective here.

	Quote:	k_and_e
	That's even worse. You assume that people can't think over consequences. The question is more if the first country that will leave the EU, will do it in an article 50 style or a kind of leaving the USSR style.

I'm not assuming anything. Over the past 3 million pages of this thread, it has been mentioned at least a gazillion times that the voting public were not properly or reliably informed. (Yes, I am fully aware you could poke around dark and dusty recesses of the internet looking for the Maastricht Treaty and read the whole tome).

You cannot "think over consequences" if you only have half-baked facts, misinformation and a load of lies at your disposal.

Can't believe people on here still think the whole dog and pony show of the campaign had any merit.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:
	This might explain the complexities (and insanity) of it all.

Any feedback by Jacob Cheese-Mogg on that yet?

	Quote:	Jim2007
	To most Irish people it would be a joke, since it would only be a glorified opinion poll!

That's one reason why the UK needs compulsory voting.

[bigblue2]

	Quote:
	That's one reason why the UK needs compulsory voting.

that would be a disaster!! the people who can't be bothered to vote at the moment are the exact people you'd never want to vote

[MusicChick]

How does democracy work with compulsory voting?

And how does the system follow up with those don't vote?

In theory, not a bad idea. Theoretically, we can also assume that people weren't informed. They did not inform themselves. Maybe.

Next time when something important comes up, they will. To have to deal with consequences is a way to teach people to come to the urns, without making it compulsory. It's not like that obligation would be implementable, anyways.

	Quote:	bigblue2
	that would be a disaster!! the people who can't be bothered to vote at the moment are the exact people you'd never want to vote

... If you're on one side. If you're on the other, maybe you do want their votes. I know you're joking, but they're all citizens, so they all have equal say in how their country should be run, unfortunately.

In any case, there's no requirement to actually cast a vote; just to be seen to exercise your right to decide whether to vote (i.e. actively, not passively).

	Quote:	MusicChick
	How does democracy work with compulsory voting? And how does the system follow up with those don't vote? In theory, not a bad idea. Theoretically, we can also assume that people weren't informed. They did not inform themselves. Maybe. Next time when something important comes up, they will. To have to deal with consequences is a way to teach people to come to the urns, without making it compulsory. It's not like that obligation would be implementable, anyways.

It absolutely is implementable. See Australia, for one, and this for more information.

Think about it: there is nothing more democratic than every eligible voter having their say. No more decisions binding the whole country because 24% of adult citizens voted that way.

	Quote:	MusicChick
	How does democracy work with compulsory voting? And how does the system follow up with those don't vote? In theory, not a bad idea. Theoretically, we can also assume that people weren't informed. They did not inform themselves. Maybe. Next time when something important comes up, they will. To have to deal with consequences is a way to teach people to come to the urns, without making it compulsory. It's not like that obligation would be implementable, anyways.

It's not a bad idea, it's a terrible idea.

A refusal to vote represents a definite expression of political opinion, a rejection of the candidates, the parties and policies that are offered.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	It's not a bad idea, it's a terrible idea. A refusal to vote represents a definite expression of political opinion, a rejection of the candidates, the parties and policies that are offered.

Absolutely

[bowlie]

… and all abstentions should be counted as favouring a status quo. Wording of the question then becomes very important, but that too would be a good thing.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	It's not a bad idea, it's a terrible idea. A refusal to vote represents a definite expression of political opinion, a rejection of the candidates, the parties and policies that are offered.

Bollocks. You can cast a spoiled vote.

[curley]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	To most Irish people it would be a joke, since it would only be a glorified opinion poll! You need a general election which will give the authority to the government to actually authority to carry out the decision. Not another referendum farce.

	Quote:
	That's one reason why the UK needs compulsory voting.

Why? It would still be a glorified opinion poll.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	bowlie
	… and all abstentions should be counted as favouring a status quo. Wording of the question then becomes very important, but that too would be a good thing.

Do you also assume that people who don't reply to your particular posts must agree with you? Nice to have so many fans.

When people don't vote - then they deprive themselves of having their say in how things get done for them in the future. The only way to motivate them is to follow up and implement what they refuse to decide on. Democracy in action. Not give them another chance a little while later hoping they will vote in a particular favor, lol. That costs everyone too much.

Democracy costs, more aware of that fact people are, less it costs. Glad we live in a place that can afford the most democracy I have experienced. And it is far from compulsory, it would beat the principle of a free, democratic society.

	Quote:
	Bollocks. You can cast a spoiled vote.

If you reject the system, then why even bother with that?

	Quote:
	Bollocks. You can cast a spoiled vote.

... or no vote at all (simply be recorded as having exercised your right). Just as they do in Australia.

	Quote:	bigblue2
	not the biggest no, but the one that will mean it'll never happen. Hey, you french squaddies, you must speak german now - just see how that goes down. (works just as well with italians too)

The ultimate irony is of course, that the lingua franca will be English.

	Quote:	curley
	Why? It would still be a glorified opinion poll.

In the same way as any election is a glorified opinion poll.

Or are you referring to the non-binding element of the referendum? I think the UK government has shown that it's happy to accept the result as binding.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	bigblue2
	lol @ a European army, 1st question - what language should be used? given the intelligence of the average squaddie and the stubbornness of the countries involved it'll never happen.

So how do you think NATO works then or is NATO some kind of magic that cause forces to suddenly function differently... Clearly you know SFA about the topic.