The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	The actual fact as opposed to your BS is that Junker is commission president because he had been the candidate of the parties that won the major at the last EU parliament election. And the UK did their best to prevent the choice of the parliament being appointed and failed. Try sticking to the actual facts, you ‘ll be a bit more credible that way.

So of all candidates of these parties, Juncker was the best candidate? Do you really believe that?

Edit: whatever. This has not much to do with Brexit.

[marton]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	So of all candidates of these parties, Juncker was the best candidate? Do you really believe that? Edit: whatever. This has not much to do with Brexit.

In democracies, the winning candidates are the ones who get the most votes; best is not a criteria - look at examples from the US to China

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	So of all candidates of these parties, Juncker was the best candidate? Do you really believe that? Edit: whatever. This has not much to do with Brexit.

So why did you bother posting BS then? It gets boring having to call you out on it, but I will.

[Troublawesome]

Because he's a typical Brexiteer. All facts twisted or misunderstood, EU is the devil and there is nothing wrong with his/her own country where everything is evangelical.

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Or do you think: I am a EU citizen and Juncker is my president?

That's exactly what Jim thinks, and Lewton and Troublawesome too. They are EU citizens and he is their democratically elected President. And to think all the proud EU citizens who sneer at Trump and the US .

As a Brexiteer I'm glad Juncker is the Commission President. His "appointment" could be argued as a factor that resulted in Brexit. It was a clear statement of the path that the EU is on, and whether the UK wanted to join them on that journey.

[lewton]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	So of all candidates of these parties, Juncker was the best candidate? Do you really believe that? Edit: whatever. This has not much to do with Brexit.

Was May the best candidate in the last UK election?

[lewton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	That's exactly what Jim thinks, and Lewton and Troublawesome too. They are EU citizens and he is their democratically elected President. And to think all the proud EU citizens who sneer at Trump and the US .

I prefer the term chancellor.

[Belgianmum]

	Quote:	lewton
	Was May the best candidate in the last UK election?

The best candidate for what?
In a UK general election the people vote for the politicians in their constituency and the majority of the people of Maidenhead obviously thought she was the best person to represent them in parliament.
Or do you mean the best candidate for the party leadership? In which case it was the majority of Tory MPs who thought she was and let’s face it there aren’t many viable, sensible alternatives.

[curley]

	Quote:	Belgianmum
	The best candidate for what? In a UK general election the people vote for the politicians in their constituency and the majority of the people of Maidenhead obviously thought she was the best person to represent them in parliament. Or do you mean the best candidate for the party leadership? In which case it was the majority of Tory MPs who thought she was and let’s face it there aren’t many viable, sensible alternatives.

Genuine question by a non-Brit:

People in GB only vote for the party they want to govern the country? Any other decision is the party's decision?

And if so, am I correct in thinking people have only two parties to choose from?

[Fish Paste]

	Quote:	curley
	Genuine question by a non-Brit: People in GB only vote for the party they want to govern the country? Any other decision is the party's decision? And if so, am I correct in thinking people have only two parties to choose from?

Basically, yes.

I'm very much hoping that Brexit causes some upheaval in the current system.

[Belgianmum]

	Quote:	curley
	Genuine question by a non-Brit: People in GB only vote for the party they want to govern the country? Any other decision is the party's decision? And if so, am I correct in thinking people have only two parties to choose from?

More or less, yes.

There are more than two parties to choose from but only two have a realistic chance of getting into power.

[bowlie]

	Quote:	Belgianmum
	More or less, yes. There are more than two parties to choose from but only two have a realistic chance of getting into power.

Yet the Lib-Dems were 'in power' for some time. Coalition governments are unusual in the UK, but not unknown. For me a coalition government is the best form.

[SOBEIT]

Nick Clegg was never in power, merely a lap dog for DC.

[bowlie]

	Quote:	SOBEIT
	Nick Clegg was never in power, merely a lap dog for DC.

I believe we were talking about parties, not people.

How about something different? Let's talk about Brexit.

[SOBEIT]

	Quote:	bowlie
	I believe we were talking about parties, not people. How about something different? Let's talk about Brexit.

Who led the party - we are, it was DC who ran like a wind.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	That's exactly what Jim thinks, and Lewton and Troublawesome too.

You have no idea what I think! The fact the you choose to ignore the actual facts is entirely on you. You used to amusing, something to pass time while wait for a train or bus, but now it is just boring. So adding you to the ignore list.

[marton]

	Quote:	marton
	Jaguar Land Rover is cutting hundreds of jobs at its Solihull plant and giving hundreds more workers at its engine factory in Wolverhampton an early break for Christmas as it shifts production abroad and battles a slump in demand. Around 200 jobs at the carmaker’s Solihull site are reported to be on the block, on top of 1,000 contract jobs that have already been axed, as production of its Discovery model is shifted to Slovakia Source If you are a UK manufacturer whose major export market is the EU then you have to be nuts if you do not move production post Brexit to the EU!

JLR is no longer talking about hundreds of job cuts; now it is thousands
"Jaguar Land Rover to 'axe up to 5,000 jobs' to ward off the threat from Brexit, falling sales in China and a drop in demand for diesel cars."

Source

Edit; Solihull voted 56% Leave, turkeys voting for Christmas!

Also layoffs planned for Wolverhampton plant, 62% voted Leave.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	That's exactly what Jim thinks, and Lewton and Troublawesome too. They are EU citizens and he is their democratically elected President. And to think all the proud EU citizens who sneer at Trump and the US . As a Brexiteer I'm glad Juncker is the Commission President. His "appointment" could be argued as a factor that resulted in Brexit. It was a clear statement of the path that the EU is on, and whether the UK wanted to join them on that journey.

How is Juncker worse than others who occupied the same position, some of them for much longer than he did? I'm trying hard to find good enough reasons to dislike him more than others - presidents of the EC or in some other significant position.

No, his appointment wasn't a factor for Brexit. That "marginal" (yeah right) party called UKIP has cooked Brexit for way longer than Juncker's mandate. You and other Brexiteers made it plenty clear that no deal could have stopped UK because you want independence first and foremost. And EU is about common decisions even if not all and each of them fit every country at all times.

People are hypocrites. I've read posts saying "I'm OK if a country decides to kick out all the British citizens residing there, I'll just pack and leave and say thank you for the hospitality" but as soon as some insignificant third national tourist tax is only announced as a possibility everyone is outraged and goes like "Oh NOW I'm really NOT sorry for voting Leave blah blah". I think everyone is responsible for their vote and they should have voted knowing exactly why they voted Leave and that by doing so it will mean that you are going to be treated differently than before i.e. as non-EU citizens. Instead, what people thought they're voting for was their country reserving the right to behave like they please, every time they feel like, with no consequences and no fear of retaliations at all. Like being in EU when they like and not being in EU when they don't like. It's like that and some more when it comes they way some people perceive their god given rights to be above all and everybody else. I'm sorry for failing to be more sympathetic but I've read enough here to make up my mind.

	Quote:	greenmount
	How is Juncker worse than others who occupied the same position, some of them for much longer than he did? I'm trying hard to find good enough reasons to dislike him more than others - presidents of the EC or in some other significant position. No, his appointment wasn't a factor for Brexit. That "marginal" (yeah right) party called UKIP has cooked Brexit for way longer than Juncker's mandate. You and other Brexiteers made it plenty clear that no deal could have stopped UK because you want independence first and foremost. And EU is about common decisions even if not all and each of them fit every country at all times. People are hypocrites. I've read posts saying "I'm OK if a country decides to kick out all the British citizens residing there, I'll just pack and leave and say thank you for the hospitality" but as soon as some insignificant third national tourist tax is only announced as a possibility everyone is outraged and goes like "Oh NOW I'm really NOT sorry for voting Leave blah blah". I think everyone is responsible for their vote and they should have voted knowing exactly why they voted Leave and that by doing so it will mean that you are going to be treated differently than before i.e. as non-EU citizens. Instead, what people thought they're voting for was their country reserving the right to behave like they please, every time they feel like, with no consequences and no fear of retaliations at all. Like being in EU when they like and not being in EU when they don't like. It's like that and some more when it comes they way some people perceive their god given rights to be above all and everybody else. I'm sorry for failing to be more sympathetic but I've read enough here to make up my mind.

In reality it was just an ill-thought out and knee-jerk vanity project in a desperate plan to stay in power. Nothing more, nothing less.

It royally back-fired, most of parliament is "Remain" and they realise there's actually no viable solution that they can get more than a handful to agree on. There just isn't enough popcorn.

	Quote:	greenmount
	How is Juncker worse than others who occupied the same position, some of them for much longer than he did? I'm trying hard to find good enough reasons to dislike him more than others - presidents of the EC or in some other significant position. No, his appointment wasn't a factor for Brexit. That "marginal" (yeah right) party called UKIP has cooked Brexit for way longer than Juncker's mandate. You and other Brexiteers made it plenty clear that no deal could have stopped UK because you want independence first and foremost. And EU is about common decisions even if not all and each of them fit every country at all times.

For sure it was a factor. It was the start of the EU saying we will ignore the concerns of the UK. The UK and Hungary explicitly said that they did not want Juncker to be the Commission President. In the past this decision had been decided by unanimity of the EU member states. Even David Cameron said at the time that if Juncker is appointed President then the UK could leave the EU. When Cameron went back to negotiate the conditions of the UK's membership of the EU with the likes of Juncker he was sent off packing again as the EU didn't take seriously the threat of Brexit.

I won't comment on the rest of your post as to be honest, I don't really understand the point you're trying to make.