The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[22 yards]

	Quote:	curley
	Genuine question by a non-Brit: People in GB only vote for the party they want to govern the country? Any other decision is the party's decision? And if so, am I correct in thinking people have only two parties to choose from?

Almost.

In a General Election in the UK, people vote only for their local Member of Parliament, that is, for their local representative in Parliament. There is no popular election of the Prime Minister à la presidential election in the USA. In simple terms, the leader of the party (or of the largest party in a coalition of parties) with the majority of MPs gets to be Prime Minister.

So the people don't vote directly for a PM. If they want a particular party to rule, the best they can do is vote for the local candidate of that party. In some constituencies, a party may not offer a candidate in an election, so voters are left with choosing someone from a party that's not their first choice, or abstaining.

It's correct that there are two main choices, Conservative or Labour, but that's the case in most democracies, USA included. Other parties (and independents) exist, but they are small fry next to the big two and only come into play when Parliament is fairly evenly split.

[bowlie]

These are the parties elected to the UK Parliament in 2017. (In alphabetic order)

Conservative Party
Co-operative Party
Democratic Unionist Party (N. Ireland)
Green Party
Labour Party
Liberal Democrats
Plaid Cymru (Wales)
Scottish National Party
Sinn Féin (N. Ireland)

[John William]

Although not belonging to any Party - I wouldn't dismiss the Independent MP's sitting in Parliament
from the above list.
Of which there are currently 7 Independent MP's in Westminster.

[bigblue2]

	Quote:	marton
	JLR is no longer talking about hundreds of job cuts; now it is thousands "Jaguar Land Rover to 'axe up to 5,000 jobs' to ward off the threat from Brexit, falling sales in China and a drop in demand for diesel cars." Source Edit; Solihull voted 56% Leave, turkeys voting for Christmas! Also layoffs planned for Wolverhampton plant, 62% voted Leave.

as I've said before JLR is a very very bad example, tata where given JLR on the condition they kept the factories etc open for an undisclosed amount of time, this is a very convenient excuse to do something they where always going to do, they have been moving manufacturing to china, eastern europe and india for quite some time.

[curley]

	Quote:	bowlie
	These are the parties elected to the UK Parliament in 2017. (In alphabetic order) Conservative Party Co-operative Party Democratic Unionist Party (N. Ireland) Green Party Labour Party Liberal Democrats Plaid Cymru (Wales) Scottish National Party Sinn Féin (N. Ireland)

So they are all represented in the governement and the strongest party provides the prime minister?

[baboon]

	Quote:	curley
	So they are all represented in the governement and the strongest party provides the prime minister?

Assuming this is a serious question () - No.

The government is only the conservative party.

[curley]

	Quote:	baboon
	Assuming this is a serious question () - No. The government is only the conservative party.

Of course that was a serious question (how long have you lived in Switzerland? )

Anyway, thanks for the reply.

[John William]

What about considering the Channel Islands option in the UK - EU Withdrawal Agreement ?

We've heard all about the Norway option, the Canada plus option, the EEA option,
etc but what about the Crown dependencies option ? - these being the Isle of Man and the
Balliwicks of Jersey and Guernsey in the Channel Islands, that are essentially within the EU
Single Market for the purposes of trade in goods, but are third countries (i.e. outside the EU)
in all other respects including outside the EU's free movement of labour regime.

Could this option break the deadlock in Westminster ? - particularly as the EU have
endorsed this agreement concerning the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man during
all the years the UK has been a member of the Common Market, the EEC and
finally the EU.

The Channel Islands relationship with the EU

[fatmanfilms]

The petition 'Leave the EU without a deal in March 2019' has 149,220 votes, that's more than the petition for a second referendum.........

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	The petition 'Leave the EU without a deal in March 2019' has 149,220 votes, that's more than the petition for a second referendum.........

It's not a second referendum which people want, it's a say on the final deal (The Peoples Vote) which is currently showing well over a million votes.

I don't think many people have an appetite for a repeat of the car crash referendum.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	It's not a second referendum which people want, it's a say on the final deal (The Peoples Vote) which is currently showing well over a million votes. I don't think many people have an appetite for a repeat of the car crash referendum.

So are you saying the Remainers could be happy to leave? I really don't believe that. Accept the deal or Hard Brexit

Pretty sure Odile wan't a second referendum due to all the lies.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	It's not a second referendum which people want, it's a say on the final deal (The Peoples Vote) which is currently showing well over a million votes. I don't think many people have an appetite for a repeat of the car crash referendum.

You're mixing things up. This is the third referendum.


Followed by the fourth referendum for people that expected a different implementation of the third.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	You're mixing things up. This is the third referendum. Followed by the fourth referendum for people that expected a different implementation of the third.

Surely easier to just leave now, there could always be a vote to rejoin in say 10 years if the EU has not gone bust by then

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	So are you saying the Remainers could be happy to leave? I really don't believe that. Accept the deal or Hard Brexit Pretty sure Odile wan't a second referendum due to all the lies.

I think you are looking at it a bit simplistically with those trusty black and white goggles, to be fair. In as much as a percentage of remainers have accepted the shit show as it stands, and that there's probably no way back, the more practical way forward is to at least have some kind of competent agreement to secure the future and at least avoid a hard Brexit. Hence the peoples vote.

Conversely there are Leavers who also find that a hard Brexit was a step too far, or not really what they had in mind.

Added to all that, the utter shambles that has come out of parliament over the past 2 years would probably give traction to people wanting to have some say.

Anyone who thinks the government is handling this with anything even masquerading as competency probably needs their head examining.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	You're mixing things up. This is the third referendum. Followed by the fourth referendum for people that expected a different implementation of the third.

Where did I call it a "second referendum"? The bit where I wrote "it's NOT a second referendum" was a dead giveaway.

I quoted FMF who called it a "second referendum".

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	Where did I call it a "second referendum"? The bit where I wrote "it's NOT a second referendum" was a dead giveaway. I quoted FMF who called it a "second referendum".

This will all be clear in the fifth referendum

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	curley
	So they are all represented in the governement and the strongest party provides the prime minister?

AFAIK the leader of the party that won the most seats is appointed by HRM as PM, who then forms the cabinet. If that party doesn't have the absolute majoirty of the seats in the House of Commons, the PM candidate forms a coalition to that end. This is the case now (Tories & DUP [Democratic Unionist Party]) as the tories lost the absolute majority in the general elections last year that were called by May.

[baboon]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	AFAIK the leader of the party that won the most seats is appointed by HRM as PM, who then forms the cabinet. If that party doesn't have the absolute majoirty of the seats in the House of Commons, the PM candidate forms a coalition to that end. This is the case now (Tories & DUP [Democratic Unionist Party]) as the tories lost the absolute majority in the general elections last year that were called by May.

Not quite. Technically the Tories have formed a minority government - the DUP are not in coalition with them but have pledged to support the government on supply (i.e. budget) and confidence motions (i.e. to not vote against them in a confidence vote).

They appear to be close to breaking that second commitment.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	baboon
	Not quite. Technically the Tories have formed a minority government - the DUP are not in coalition with them but have pledged to support the government on supply (i.e. budget) and confidence motions (i.e. to not vote against them in a confidence vote).appear to be close to breaking that second commitment.

But (so far) it amounts to the same, doesn't it? After all they've been bribed with £ 1bln or thereabouts.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Surely easier to just leave now, there could always be a vote to rejoin in say 10 years if the EU has not gone bust by then

Ya go for it! Next thing we’ll hear is how the WTO is punishing the UK because it will not give them what they want. How Argentina and Russia are bullies, with Argentina demanding the Falklands and heaven knows what Russia will except.

And as for back, that means having to negotiate your membership terms including accepting the Euro, no special treatment and an Irish referendum on the issue. I don’t see that on the cards without a United Ireland.