The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	marton
	Being led by a drunk is not necessarily a bad thing; look at Winston Churchill?

Yes, he was a very heavy drinker, but when was the last time Churchill had to be held up by others since he on official meetings was so drunk he could not even stand on his own feet anymore? Juncker clearly is an alcoholic without self-control, and in disregard of Churchill who never made a secret of loving a good drink Juncker tries to hide it and comes up with lies. And since the people in his surroundings are afraid of their job they'll all just nod instead of getting the freak gone from a position which he clearly can't handle.

	Quote:
	I am not sure who you mean by "self-righteous pigs"; if you mean the Dutch MEPs who were voted in by the NL voters then who is to blame?

The Dutch get to vote on 26 out of 751 seats, giving them less than 3,5% of the seats to cast a vote on, effectively meaningless. And I was referring to the "crowd" around Juncker of which many people have not been put into position by elections. The EP is the only EU institute that knows elections, but it is only a part of the whole that makes and proposes laws, it is only a part of the whole which decides on treaties and expansions. It has to share it's lawgiving powers with non-electable counsels. It laks the right for initiatives when it comes to laws, it only can make non binding requests to the European comity to please come up with a law.

Also we as a population never were asked to join the EU, we supported joining the EEG since it was about business and trade opportunities, but nobody ever asked us anything about the EU which by now has become a business on its own with the power to self-expand to where ever it wants to.

[greenmount]

	Quote:
	Yes, he was a very heavy drinker, but when was the last time Churchill had to be held up by others since he on official meetings was so drunk he could not even stand on his own feet anymore? Juncker clearly is an alcoholic without self-control, and in disregard of Churchill who never made a secret of loving a good drink Juncker tries to hide it and comes up with lies. And since the people in his surroundings are afraid of their job they'll all just nod instead of getting the freak gone from a position which he clearly can't handle. The Dutch get to vote on 26 out of 751 seats, giving them less than 3,5% of the seats to cast a vote on, effectively meaningless. And I was referring to the "crowd" around Juncker of which many people have not been put into position by elections. The EP is the only EU institute that knows elections, but it is only a part of the whole that makes and proposes laws, it is only a part of the whole which decides on treaties and expansions. It has to share it's lawgiving powers with non-electable counsels. It laks the right for initiatives when it comes to laws, it only can make non binding requests to the European comity to please come up with a law. Also we as a population never were asked to join the EU, we supported joining the EEG since it was about business and trade opportunities, but nobody ever asked us anything about the EU which by now has become a business on its own with the power to self-expand to where ever it wants to.

Duch companies are everywhere in the EU taking advantages of every possible deal.....it's these opinions that really drive me mad. A lot of money into your pockets out of the capital and goods' freedom of movement and now you complain....seriously? After you got your hands on everything?

Next it's the Italians, Spaniards and the French! Revolting. Oh, and let's not forget the Germans, who knows what poor victims they too feel like....at least they have the common sense not to complain too much....for the moment.

	Quote:	greenmount
	Duch companies are everywhere in the EU taking advantages of every possible deal.....it's these opinions that really drive me mad. A lot of money into your pockets out of the capital and good freedom of movement and now you complain....seriously? Next it's Italians, Spaniards and French! Revolting. Oh, and leet's not forget the Germans, who at least have common sense not to complain too much.

No it is people like you who think that as long as we get some extra bucks out of it we should be pleased with it that are absurd and don't understand that not everybody is all about the bucks.

Besides that, the trading and business part that you refer to was already nicely arranged in the EEC and worked out fine before the EU even came to existence.

And yes I happily take less bucks in my wallet if that is what it takes to get rid of the EU, I'm not some prostitute for which you hold me saying that I should just bend deep and get ****ed since it also gave me bucks.

Your post is annoyingly dumb.

[greenmount]

	Quote:
	No it is people like you who think that as long as we get some extra bucks out of it we should be pleased with it that are absurd and don't understand that not everybody is all about the bucks. Besides that, the trading and business part that you refer to was already nicely arranged in the EEC and worked out fine before the EU even came to existence. And yes I happily take less bucks in my wallet if that is what it takes to get rid of the EU, I'm not some prostitute for which you hold me saying that I should just bend deep and get ****ed since it also gave me bucks. Your post is annoyingly dumb.

Your posts are annoyingly arrogant and I don't give a rat's ass on what you think of my post.
No, you are not a prostitute but try to see that this union has worked tremendously well for some countries and it's only when things don't go that well people start to blame every possible evil on EU. If it's not all about money as you put it in your PM why the hell everyone gets up in their arms only after they're loaded and there's less than before?


You can vote Nexit or whatever, dude. It doesn't mean you're right. It doesn't even mean you'll be doing a service to your country. And don't act so arrogantly when you're called out on this nonsense. I have more morals than you'll ever have dude.

	Quote:	greenmount
	Your posts are annoyingly arrogant and I don't give a rat's ass on what you think of my post. No, you are not a prostitute but try to see that this union has worked tremendously well for some countries and it's only when things don't go that well people start to blame every possible evil on EU. You can vote Nexit or whatever, dude. It doesn't mean you're right. It doesn't even mean you'll be doing a service to your country. And don't act so arrogantly when you're called out on this nonsense.

You seem to upset to claim you don't give a rat's ass....

What is currently claimed by many to be the biggest successes of the EU are in fact not even EU things, just things that it inherited when it got founded.

And no I can't vote Nexit, I never could, and there is no system in place or being prepared that will allow such.

Also I was against the EU from the day it was grounded in 1993 since I don't want a country to give up such amount of independency as the EU demands to be given up. So nothing to do with economy going good or bad as you wrongly assumed while accusing others of arrogance.

[MusicChick]

Group hug?

[greenmount]

	Quote:
	You seem to upset to claim you don't give a rat's ass.... What is currently claimed by many to be the biggest successes of the EU are in fact not even EU things, just things that it inherited when it got founded. And no I can't vote Nexit, I never could, and there is no system in place or being prepared that will allow such. Also I was against the EU from the day it was grounded in 1993 since I don't want a country to give up such amount of independency as the EU demands to be given up. So nothing to do with economy going good or bad as you wrongly assumed while accusing others of arrogance.

Annoyed not upset. Arrogance, injustice and lack of morals have that effect on me. Thanks for the red blobs btw, apparently it is YOU that was that angry as to spread some red blobs lol.

	Quote:	greenmount
	Annoyed not upset. Arrogance, injustice and lack of morals have that effect on me. Thanks for the red blobs btw, apparently it is YOU that was that angry as to spread some red blobs lol.

Actually you make me laugh, and I have experience dealing with people who fail to see what somebody else is actually saying due to them being convinced of their own opinions being correct so nope not angry or annoyed

I am not like you who says he has the upper hand on morals while stating that as long as I get money out of something I did not ask for I should not complain about it. And yes such stupidity can earn you some red blobs.

[marton]

	Quote:
	Yes, he was a very heavy drinker, but when was the last time Churchill had to be held up by others since he on official meetings was so drunk he could not even stand on his own feet anymore? Juncker clearly is an alcoholic without self-control, and in disregard of Churchill who never made a secret of loving a good drink Juncker tries to hide it and comes up with lies. And since the people in his surroundings are afraid of their job they'll all just nod instead of getting the freak gone from a position which he clearly can't handle. The Dutch get to vote on 26 out of 751 seats, giving them less than 3,5% of the seats to cast a vote on, effectively meaningless. And I was referring to the "crowd" around Juncker of which many people have not been put into position by elections. The EP is the only EU institute that knows elections, but it is only a part of the whole that makes and proposes laws, it is only a part of the whole which decides on treaties and expansions. It has to share it's lawgiving powers with non-electable counsels. It laks the right for initiatives when it comes to laws, it only can make non binding requests to the European comity to please come up with a law. Also we as a population never were asked to join the EU, we supported joining the EEG since it was about business and trade opportunities, but nobody ever asked us anything about the EU which by now has become a business on its own with the power to self-expand to where ever it wants to.

"The EP is the only EU institute that knows elections" Actually not correct, the Council of the European Union represents the executive governments of the EU's member states and the European Council comprises the heads of state or government of the EU member states.

[greenmount]

	Quote:
	Actually you make me laugh, and I have experience dealing with people who fail to see what somebody else is actually saying due to them being convinced of their own opinions being correct so nope not angry or annoyed I am not like you who says he has the upper hand on morals while stating that as long as I get money out of something I did not ask for I should not complain about it. And yes such stupidity can earn you some red blobs.

One question - was Holland under foreign occupation when they joined EU? Did someone brought the EU with their tanks?

I get it - you were born Eurosceptic. You never wanted EU. It's OK. Maybe you should have done something back then - start a party, a petition for a referendum, whatever.

	Quote:	greenmount
	One question - was Holland under foreign occupation when they joined EU? Did someone brought the EU with their tanks? I get it - you were born Eurosceptic. You never wanted EU. It's OK. Maybe you should have done something back then - start a party, a petition for a referendum, whatever.

First of all: Holland is a region in the Netherlands.

Second: We did not have referendums by then, and we only had them for a short period of time and the law to get rid of them has already been accepted. We had a short period of non binding referendums that the government rapidly disbanded since they did not like the outcomes which showed that they twice went completely against the outcome which had very clear majorities.

Third: I voted party's that were against the EU

Fourth: We never joined the EU, we joined Belgium, France, Italy, Luxembourg and West Germany in founding the European Coal and Steel Community which eventually grew out to become the EU, I was not around in those days but if so I would have been pro since this only aimed to regulate the industrial production, just like later the EEC had so many good things to offer that I always have been pro. But those were controlled by the countries instead of acting like an independent higher government.

Next please.....

	Quote:	marton
	"The EP is the only EU institute that knows elections" Actually not correct, the Council of the European Union represents the executive governments of the EU's member states and the European Council comprises the heads of state or government of the EU member states.

And how exactly do the Dutch choose their prime-minister?

Oh no we don't since we can't since parlement appoints him/her.

[Troublawesome]

Can you move this childish feud somewhere else, like in PM messages? Nobody cares.

[greenmount]

	Quote:
	First of all: Holland is a region in the Netherlands. Second: We did not have referendums by then, and we only had them for a short period of time and the law to get rid of them has already been accepted. We had a short period of non binding referendums that the government rapidly disbanded since they did not like the outcomes which showed that they twice went completely against the outcome which had very clear majorities. Third: I voted party's that were against the EU Fourth: We never joined the EU, we joined Belgium, France, Italy, Luxembourg and West Germany in founding the European Coal and Steel Community which eventually grew out to become the EU, I was not around in those days but if so I would have been pro since this only aimed to regulate the industrial production, just like later the EEC had so many good things to offer that I always have been pro. But those were controlled by the countries instead of acting like an independent higher government. Next please.....

Yeah, you must know very well that Holland is very often informally used for the whole country not only for the region...but if you prefer.

Exactly. It's one of the original members who had a say or could have had a say in pretty much every issue right from the start. At least the British have a reason to complain! Well not really, of course, but for the sake of the argument.

I don't think this issue it's worth a flame war on EF. You, me, everyone here is too small to change anything other than by (hopefully) our vote, when or if given the opportunity.
I guess I refrained too much and too often on this forum to comment on many things and there came a day when I saw yet another posts of a sort. I'm disappointed by this whole thing, all these discussions, I guess it's not really your fault for having your opinion. Let's leave it at that.

	Quote:	greenmount
	Yeah, you must know very well that Holland is very often informally used for the whole country not only for the region...but if you prefer. Exactly. It's one of the original members who had a say or could have had a say in pretty much every issue right from the start. At least the British have a reason to complain! Well not, of course, but for the sake of the argument. I don't think this issue it's worth a flame war on EF. You, me, everyone here are too small to change anything other by (hopefully) our vote, when or if given the opportunity. I guess I refrained too much and too often on this forum to comment on many things and there came a day when I saw yet another posts of a sort. I'm disappointed by this whole thing, all these discussion, not your fault for having your opinion. Let's leave it at that.

Well sir in that case I wish you a happy evening and hope to see you again in topics where we perhaps even share the same opinion on the subject.

[greenmount]

	Quote:
	Well sir in that case I wish you a happy evening and hope to see you again in topics where we perhaps even share the same opinion on the subject.

Group hug, as MC wants. :-)

(btw, wrong gender)

[marton]

	Quote:
	First of all: Holland is a region in the Netherlands. Second: We did not have referendums by then, and we only had them for a short period of time and the law to get rid of them has already been accepted. We had a short period of non binding referendums that the government rapidly disbanded since they did not like the outcomes which showed that they twice went completely against the outcome which had very clear majorities. Third: I voted party's that were against the EU Fourth: We never joined the EU, we joined Belgium, France, Italy, Luxembourg and West Germany in founding the European Coal and Steel Community which eventually grew out to become the EU, I was not around in those days but if so I would have been pro since this only aimed to regulate the industrial production, just like later the EEC had so many good things to offer that I always have been pro. But those were controlled by the countries instead of acting like an independent higher government. Next please.....

Actually the EU institutions were set up based on the EEC model and used the same, or similar, names.
The EEC model was the Council represents governments, the Parliament represents citizens and the Commission represents the European interest. There was also the Court of Justice of the European Communities.

[marton]

	Quote:
	And how exactly do the Dutch choose their prime-minister? Oh no we don't since we can't since parlement appoints him/her.

If NL left the EU it would not change how the Dutch choose their prime-minister?

	Quote:	marton
	Actually the EU institutions were set up based on the EEC model and used the same, or similar, names.

The EEC was a treaty on initiative of the EHGC, signed by the members of the EHGC to expand furthermore their fields of cooperations. The history of the EU starts with the EHGC.

	Quote:	marton
	If NL left the EU it would not change how the Dutch choose their prime-minister?

Also we called it a night on this discussion, you might want to consider doing the same.