The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[John William]

	Quote:	John William
	Could this be the start of Brexit chaos ? - the Day of the Drone at Gatwick airport Speculation is mounting that whoever is flying the Drone, that's caused so many cancelled flights at Gatwick airport, is deliberately intruding on the airport perimeter in order to cause maximum disruption at the airport and to passenger flights to and from the UK before Christmas. So far the Police have failed in all attempts to find the drone and the drones operator, who disappears and then returns again whenever Gatwick Airport contemplates reopening the airport again to flights. Now the Police have called in the Army to provide more specialist equipment, to track down the drone and it's operator. BBC News - Gatwick Airport, army called in amid Drone chaos Suffice to say this must be the first of the anticipated military deployments to assist the civilian authorities on those matters that are beyond them, on the run up to Brexit.

What a mess !! - if HMG are flawed by one malicious Drone operator grounding aircraft at Gatwick
airport for 24 hours or more - how on earth are they going to cope with a No Deal Brexit
on Brexit day ?

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	John William
	What a mess !! - if HMG are flawed by one malicious Drone operator grounding aircraft at Gatwick airport for 24 hours or more - how on earth are they going to cope with a No Deal Brexit on Brexit day ?

As nobody replied to your hysterical post, you decided to do it yourself?

[fatmanfilms]

I am impressed how much money EU countries have needed in IMF bailouts

Greece 2010 39.3 Billion 2nd biggest ever payout
Portugal 2011 37.8 Billion 3rd biggest ever payout
Greece 2012 36.4 Billion 5th biggest ever payout
Ireland 2010 29.9 Billion 6th biggest ever pay out

How the EU will ever remain viable beats me

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	How the EU will ever remain viable beats me

It will not. For example, thanks to the bail out, the Greek will need to pay for many years for the mistakes of previous generations. How can you explain something like this to the youth?

[greenmount]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	It will not. For example, thanks to the bail out, the Greek will need to pay for many years for the mistakes of previous generations. How can you explain something like this to the youth?

And the alternative would have been...?

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	greenmount
	And the alternative would have been...?

the obvious if you cannot pay your debts: bankruptcy

[greenmount]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	the obvious if you cannot pay your debts: bankruptcy

I think it's much more honourable to pay your debts in the end though.

	Quote:	k_and_e
	the obvious if you cannot pay your debts: bankruptcy

Hmm, it's a bit old and worn, but I'll give you a tenner for the Akropolis. You'll have to deliver it though.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	greenmount
	I think it's much more honourable to pay your debts in the end though.

I agree.


It's just a little bit difficult if the debt is 178% of the GDP, a 19% unemployment rate and 43% youth unemployment rate.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	greenmount
	I think it's much more honourable to pay your debts in the end though.

Before Greece was in the Euro it was easy as they just devalued the currency, they can't do that today. This will end in tears, luckily the UK has not signed up to share the debt.

[curley]

	Quote:

The book is already out .... so who's the author ..... and where lately?

[greenmount]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	I agree. It's just a little bit difficult if the debt is 178% of the GDP, a 19% unemployment rate and 43% youth unemployment rate.

Unfortunately I don't think there's any creditor willing to take into consideration these things..i.e. how difficult it is for a debtor to pay their debts back. It's definitely a very sad situation but other countries too have been through this mess (we can also say nobody asked their politicians to borrow all those money) and they somehow managed to pay everything back. Of course, we also have lucky cases when foreign debt was forgiven in special situations but I suppose the amounts were much lower...

An interesting article here. I think Greece is in a much better position than these cases...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKCN18F0I9

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Before Greece was in the Euro it was easy as they just devalued the currency, they can't do that today. This will end in tears, luckily the UK has not signed up to share the debt.

Joining euro so early was a mistake.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Unfortunately I don't think there's any creditor willing to take into consideration these things..i.e. how difficult it is for a debtor to pay their debts back. It's definitely a very sad situation but other countries too have been through this mess (we can also say nobody asked their politicians to borrow all those money) and they somehow managed to pay everything back. Of course, we also have lucky cases when foreign debt was forgiven in special situations but I suppose the amounts were much lower... An interesting article here. I think Greece is in a much better position than these cases... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKCN18F0I9

Bankruptcy is not the same as forgiveness. On the contrary.


And for a country like Greece, you can't get around that.


Imagine, your grandfather made some debts 50 years ago. He could never pay them back. Now, you still need to pay for your grand father's debts. How would you feel about that?

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Bankruptcy is not the same as forgiveness. On the contrary.

About €100bln of Greek debt was forgiven as part of the first part of the bailout, that was roughtly half the Greek debt the European banks had on their books. The remainder was bought by the ECB at face value. Two thirds of today's Greek debt owed to the ECB was incurred after the whole bailout process started.

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Imagine, your grandfather made some debts 50 years ago. He could never pay them back. Now, you still need to pay for your grand father's debts. How would you feel about that?

When your national debt does nothing but increase that's exactly the situation you describe. So that's the case for effectively every developed country, with a few rare exceptions like CH and probably Norway.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Bankruptcy is not the same as forgiveness. On the contrary. And for a country like Greece, you can't get around that. Imagine, your grandfather made some debts 50 years ago. He could never pay them back. Now, you still need to pay for your grand father's debts. How would you feel about that?

Sorry, I think you're trying hard to misunderstand me. Nowhere had I stated here that forgiveness equals bankruptcy. My point was that apart from bankruptcy (a very debatable "alternative") Greece didn't have much choice.

I'm not sure those two situations are comparable btw.

[lewton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I am impressed how much money EU countries have needed in IMF bailouts Greece 2010 39.3 Billion 2nd biggest ever payout Portugal 2011 37.8 Billion 3rd biggest ever payout Greece 2012 36.4 Billion 5th biggest ever payout Ireland 2010 29.9 Billion 6th biggest ever pay out How the EU will ever remain viable beats me

Your concern is touching but let us deal with our mess while you deal with your own.
For example how to take down a drone from the airport area.

[John William]

	Quote:	lewton
	Your concern is touching but let us deal with our mess while you deal with your own. For example how to take down a drone from the airport area.

I reckon the Gatwick drone is just a cunning sideshow, to distract people and politcians away from the
Brexit stalemate that's gridlocked Westminster.

[Troublawesome]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I am impressed how much money EU countries have needed in IMF bailouts Greece 2010 39.3 Billion 2nd biggest ever payout Portugal 2011 37.8 Billion 3rd biggest ever payout Greece 2012 36.4 Billion 5th biggest ever payout Ireland 2010 29.9 Billion 6th biggest ever pay out How the EU will ever remain viable beats me

Always find it funny when people with zero research or debate skills try to speak like grown ups. In you case FMF, your posts are slightly amusing. As a true Brexiteer who doesn't even live in the UK, most of your statements are unfounded and pretty much shot down multiple times in here.


You are looking at Greece today dedt-to-gdp today is 178%, but just before the 2008 crisis it was at similar levels to the UK's. Just wait and see what Brexit is going to do at your GDP and let's check again in a few years where it stands.



In the meantime, why don't you take a look at the UK and £7.7trillion unfunded pension liabilities?


"The UK’s gross pension liability across workplace and state provision grew by £1trn (€1.1trn) in five years, according to data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS).The total liability hit £7.6trn at the end of 2015, the ONS said, up from £6.6trn in 2010.
The total included an estimated £4trn of unfunded liabilities linked to the UK’s state pension – equal to 213% of GDP."




https://www.ipe.com/countries/uk/uk-...54.fullarticle


UK is as good as bust after Brexit so better not be so cocky when you speak about EU and pensions. The UK avoided all these BECAUSE OF the EU membership not despite.

[John William]

The Drones are back again !!

Yes that's right - the drone or drones ? are back again, looks like Theresa May will have tear herself away
from arguing with the ERG over Brexit and call a Cobra meeting this time.


BBC News - Gatwick Airport drones - flights suspended again

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Troublawesome
	UK is as good as bust after Brexit so better not be so cocky when you speak about EU and pensions. The UK avoided all these BECAUSE OF the EU membership not despite.

It's not only FMF or some of the British who think exactly so without doing any research. I think it's rather futile to converse on subjects people have a strong opinion regardless of facts.