The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	Blueangel
	I'm not sure why, but that idea makes me recoil. I've always viewed Scotland as a separate country.

You'd probably need to ask a room of Geographers and Historians and linguists to clarify whether Scotland is, was, etc a separate country, that's quite a large debate. It's safe to say that there is certainly a different cultural identity for large numbers of Scots when comparing to (especially southern) Englanders. That said, there are large swathes of Scottish people who believe in Britain, the monarchy and basically being English above all else.

However, you can see clearly from the country's voting patterns that the country as a whole leans far more left/socialist than do our neighbours to the south.

	Quote:
	I think most people would agree that the French are a deeply nationalistic people. The Germans can be, too. And Spaniards. And those people with funny American accents up in the north of Europe. And yet, they're all proud members of the EU. It is quite possible to be nationalist and co-operate with your neighbours, you know.

All nationalism is bad, which ever way you paint it. I don’t for a moment believe that nationalism was the cause of the Brexit vote, rather it was a rejection of collectivism.

	Quote:
	Scottish nationalism is based on civic nationalism Loz, we've already educated you (more than) once on this point, don't make us have to do it again. Sigh.

And you really believe that too!

Well you can forever remember that your countrymen had the chance for freedom and they choked!

	Quote:	greenmount
	IMHO - Scotland wanting independence just to remain in the EU would be stupid. Their historical and cultural ties with England are much more stronger than their ties with Continental Europe.

I think the rest of the world also makes less of a distinction. When people ask me where I'm from and I say "northern England", I've heard more than once; "Oh, Scotland?" as a reply.

Tempted to say "Aye!" just to muddy the waters a bit.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	All nationalism is bad, which ever way you paint it. I don’t for a moment believe that nationalism was the cause of the Brexit vote, rather it was a rejection of collectivism.

In reality, though, if you were to ask any Brexiter if they were a nationalist they'd clutch at their pearls and protest loudly, giving some high-brow reason (rejection of collectivism ) for sensibly voting to Leave.

Nobody wants to admit to being a nationalist, do they?

[Belgianmum]

	Quote:
	I think the rest of the world also makes less of a distinction. When people ask me where I'm from and I say "northern England", I've heard more than once; "Oh, Scotland?" as a reply. Tempted to say "Aye!" just to muddy the waters a bit.

If I had a quid for everyone who said that to me when I said I’m from Yorkshire I’d be a very rich woman by now.

	Quote:
	Nobody wants to admit to being a nationalist, do they?

Apart from the Scots.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	I'm not sure why, but that idea makes me recoil. I've always viewed Scotland as a separate country.

And yet Scotland and England have far more in common than Geneva does with Graubünden.

	Quote:	Belgianmum
	If I’d had a quid for everyone who had said that to me when I say I’m from Yorkshire I’d be a very rich woman by now.

Three things you’ll never hear someone say:

1. I’m from Yorkshire
2. I’m Vegan
3. I have an MBA

[curley]

	Quote:	3Wishes
	..... 22 is a chick? I know this thread often confuses me but...

No worries there afaIk.
My post was a spontanious reaction, triggered by something else completely. In real life I would probably have mumbled it and nobody would have taken notice. So not worth the attention.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	And you really believe that too!

Maybe you'll believe an expert?

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpo...r-than-ethnic/

No, thought not.

[Troublawesome]

Brexiters don't trust experts, they have BoJo the clown.

	Quote:
	Maybe you'll believe an expert? http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpo...r-than-ethnic/ No, thought not.

"Civic Nationalism"

Meanwhile at Celtic Park:

	Quote:	Loz1983
	"Civic Nationalism" Meanwhile at Celtic Park:

Quoting people who believe themselves more Irish than Scottish probably isn't helping your argument.

However, your example wonderfully demonstrates the concept of civic nationalism on the wider scale in Scotland. Despite feeling strongest allegiance to our Irish cousins, these people are fully welcomed into Scottish society. This is civic nationalism 101.

	Quote:
	Quoting people who believe themselves more Irish than Scottish probably isn't helping your argument. However, your example wonderfully demonstrates the concept of civic nationalism on the wider scale in Scotland. Despite feeling strongest allegiance to our Irish cousins, these people are fully welcomed into Scottish society. This is civic nationalism 101.

Shame the results don't back the theory! Glasgow was one of the only areas that voted Yes to an independent Scotland, together with the other shitholes West Dunbartonshire and North Lanarkshire. The Glaza Strip if you will. The rest of the country rejected "Civic Nationalism" and the people that did vote for independence did so for the good ole fashioned kind.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Shame the results don't back the theory! Glasgow was one of the only areas that voted Yes to an independent Scotland, together with the other shitholes West Dunbartonshire and North Lanarkshire. The Glaza Strip if you will. The rest of the country rejected "Civic Nationalism" and the people that did vote for independence did so for the good ole fashioned kind.

But they lost so they probably should get over it, right?

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Shame the results don't back the theory! Glasgow was one of the only areas that voted Yes to an independent Scotland, together with the other shitholes West Dunbartonshire and North Lanarkshire. The Glaza Strip if you will. The rest of the country rejected "Civic Nationalism" and the people that did vote for independence did so for the good ole fashioned kind.

You've (presumably deliberately) got the wrong end of the stick again, auld bean.

What has Civic Nationalism got to do with the Indyref?

Civic Nationalism is the platform the SNP run on (yes, they stand for more than just independence you know!) and they seem to be doing pretty well with 62 / 129 seats, making them by far the biggest party in the Scottish parliament, as well as returning an even higher percentage of seats to Westminster (35 out of 59).

[John William]

Well it has to be said - Can Bond save us from this Brexit crisis ?

CBS News -Political chaos in Westminster - can Bond save us ?

[greenmount]

	Quote:
	I think the rest of the world also makes less of a distinction. When people ask me where I'm from and I say "northern England", I've heard more than once; "Oh, Scotland?" as a reply. Tempted to say "Aye!" just to muddy the waters a bit.

Haha, no, I make a vague distinction... For instance I somehow knew before they're theoretically separate ethnical and linguistic groups. I also had various colleagues and even a neighbour at one point, from Scotland, who presented themselves as Scottish. I was a bit surprised (in the beginning) but didn't ask why, how, "but but I knew that.." or some other silly reactions.. I thought if they make a distinction there must be one..but they're still the same country practically..
The only friend from the UK, like in friend-friend is someone from Stratford though. Terrible accent!

[marton]

How will a no-deal Brexit hit travel in and out of the UK and Europe?
Aviation, currency, insurance, mobile phone roaming and passport control are all likely to be affected.

Source

This is the time when UK people start booking foreign holidays but who knows how big a risk there is now of extra costs, delays and other complications nobody knows!

[John William]

	Quote:	marton
	How will a no-deal Brexit hit travel in and out of the UK and Europe? Aviation, currency, insurance, mobile phone roaming and passport control are all likely to be affected. Source This is the time when UK people start booking foreign holidays but who knows how big a risk there is now of extra costs, delays and other complications nobody knows!

Well for Brits to avoid the above, it's simple have a staycation and holiday in the UK this year !

[Fish Paste]

	Quote:	marton
	This is the time when UK people start booking foreign holidays but who knows how big a risk there is now of extra costs, delays and other complications nobody knows!

Project fear yet again.

Do you honestly think Spain, Greece, Italy, Croatia, Portugal etc will see their holiday industries go into recession/bust?
There are a LOT of British tourists, Europe wants, nay needs, that money.

[marton]

	Quote:	John William
	Well for Brits to avoid the above, it's simple have a staycation and holiday in the UK this year !

I suppose most Brexit voters missed the "no more foreign holidays" clause?

[marton]

	Quote:	Fish Paste
	Project fear yet again. Do you honestly think Spain, Greece, Italy, Croatia, Portugal etc will see their holiday industries go into recession/bust? There are a LOT of British tourists, Europe wants, nay needs, that money.

True, but those countries need to be acting now to protect their holiday industries?
It will be too late when the Brits have booked elsewhere?