The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	And Anna Soubry wonders why people shout abuse at her in the street? Anyhow, this doesn't really change anything and the only real way to stop a no deal Brexit will be to bring down the government with a no confidence vote.

Of course she does. You, on the other hand, are defending that Forage. Are you even comparing these two individuals?

I wish Forage a long life in his own mud, venom and pus. I will never defend its right to be treated with respect. It lost it long time ago.

	Quote:	greenmount
	Of course she does. You, on the other hand, are defending that Forage. Are you even comparing these two individuals? I wish Forage a long life in his own mud, venom and pus. I will never defend its right to be treated with respect. It lost it long time ago.

Where have I defended Farage? I have pointed out that the reaction to these two events is disproportionate.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Fish Paste
	The UK news is milking this. Anna Soubry has clear comments on the episode and is not hysterical at all. As Loz says though, Farage / UKIP have had this for years, and no-one seemed too concerned at the time. If it's not the Brexit nutters from one side, it's the Brexit nutters from the other.

Perhaps the question is if the different reaction is a left/right thing or a male/female. My bet would be that it's a combination of the two where both parts reinforce each other. What would be the reaction if, for example, Corbyn got attacked? If I'm right the reaction should be between the two.

[22 yards]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	I have pointed out that the reaction to these two events is disproportionate.

Is it? In one instance, a person who behaves in a nationalistic, xenophobic manner and promotes racist and segregationist views is called a Nazi. In the other, a person who embraces immigration and opposes restrictions on non-citizens is called a Nazi. Seems to me that one deserves the epithet and the other doesn't.

	Quote:	22 yards
	Is it? In one instance, a person who behaves in a nationalistic, xenophobic manner and promotes racist and segregationist views is called a Nazi. In the other, a person who embraces immigration and opposes restrictions on non-citizens is called a Nazi. Seems to me that one deserves the epithet and the other doesn't.

Yes mate.

Nigel Farage quits UKIP over its "extremism" and "street activism"

[22 yards]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Yes mate. Nigel Farage quits UKIP over its "extremism" and "street activism"

From your link, the real reason why Farage quit UKIP: he finally realised that he was unelectable in the UK.

	Quote:	Telegraph article
	“The party of elections is quickly becoming a party of street activism, with our members being urged to attend marches rather than taking the fight to the ballot box,” said Mr Farage who tried and failed seven times to become a Ukip MP and is still an MEP.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Yes mate. Nigel Farage quits UKIP over its "extremism" and "street activism"

He resigned in various guises 2009, 2014, 2015, 2016 and now 2018. He'll be back, I'm sure.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	He resigned in various guises 2009, 2014, 2015, 2016 and now 2018. He'll be back, I'm sure.

That gives standup comedy a whole new meaning.

[StirB]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	He resigned in various guises 2009, 2014, 2015, 2016 and now 2018. He'll be back, I'm sure.

More farewell gigs than the Rolling Stones.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	He'll be back, I'm sure.

I think he's addicted to the attention.

Last night, a friend sent me a link to this article...

	Quote:
	Someone listed every outrageous Brexiteer quote and it's as infuriating as you'd expect

https://www.indy100.com/article/brex...l-gove-8636801

The accompanying comments are very slanted, but there's no escaping the content of the quotes. Astonishing stuff when read together.

And in other news, IAG appear to be up against it with their post-Brexit plans...

https://www.euronews.com/2019/01/09/...flight-plan-ft

[Blueangel]

A second amendment vote has been called, which could mean a second defeat for the PM so far this week. We shall see...

	Quote:
	Speakers Office confirms that this amendment has been selected for vote - neither whips office expected this - and Government now faces another defeat - and the PM would then have to return within 3 days if she is defeated on Meaningful Vote

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/stat...72554560716800

[bowlie]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	I think he's addicted to the attention. Last night, a friend sent me a link to this article... https://www.indy100.com/article/brex...l-gove-8636801 The accompanying comments are very slanted, but there's no escaping the content of the quotes. Astonishing stuff when read together. And in other news, IAG appear to be up against it with their post-Brexit plans... https://www.euronews.com/2019/01/09/...flight-plan-ft

The ownership and control issue has plagued airlines since their inception.

The legal term, used in almost every air service agreement is that airlines are to be substantially owned and effectively controlled by nationals of each country (or in the case of the EU - EU nationals).

Ownership is fairly easy to define as, by custom, that usually means 50% plus 1 share. (The US insists on 75%).

Control is much harder to define. Legal precedent suggests that the Principle Place of Business, a majority of Board Members, the majority of members of the supervisory boards, those involved in corporate decisions such as fleet and route planning, pricing, and the majority of senior executives are nationals of the state (or EU) concerned.

BA, who ran into O&C roadblocks with their planned merger with KLM a couple of decades ago should know the laws and understand this principle. BA cannot be an EU airline as their Principle Place of Business and effective control rests in Britain, nor can they be a British airline as ownership in not British.

The same applies to Virgin Atlantic whose PPoB is Britain but whose ownership is 1/3 EU (Air France and KLM) and 1/3 US (Delta)

[Blueangel]

Exactly. The full article stating the rules you refer to, is behind a paywall on the FT site, but a Google search should bring it for anyone interested in the technicalities.

I can only wonder if Virgin will manipulate their ownership in an effort to seize the flag again.

[baboon]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	A second amendment vote has been called, which could mean a second defeat for the PM so far this week. We shall see... https://twitter.com/faisalislam/stat...72554560716800

...and duly passed!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...exit-deal-vote
(as it's a breaking news link I guess it might disappear or be changed later)

[bowlie]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Exactly. The full article stating the rules you refer to, is behind a paywall on the FT site, but a Google search should bring it for anyone interested in the technicalities. I can only wonder if Virgin will manipulate their ownership in an effort to seize the flag again.

I don't think the question is 'will' Virgin ... but 'can' Virgin ... Mr. Branson would have to come up with some serious cash if he wanted to restore British ownership. And the market for airline ownership, particularly British airline ownership isn't very strong at the moment. He needs to buy back 18% from AF/KL/DE and retain it ...

Perhaps he could sell some of his Heathrow slots, but that is shooting yourself in the foot.

Parliament taking back control from the pesky electorate!

Carry on down this path and shouts of "Nazi" will be the least of their problems.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Parliament taking back control from the pesky electorate! Carry on down this path and shouts of "Nazi" will be the least of their problems.

Why? They only voted to leave the EU. There was no option to say "how".

They can't go acting all butthurt now. Devil's in the detail, and all that jazz.

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	Why? They only voted to leave the EU. There was no option to say "how". They can't go acting all butthurt now. Devil's in the detail, and all that jazz.

Tell them that, I'm sure it'll work.

Parliament can do what they want, any amendment is not changing the fact that they're still headed full steam for a no-deal Brexit.

[StirB]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Parliament taking back control from the pesky electorate! Carry on down this path and shouts of "Nazi" will be the least of their problems.

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	Why? They only voted to leave the EU. There was no option to say "how". They can't go acting all butthurt now. Devil's in the detail, and all that jazz.

Parliament was never not in charge of this. As we all know, it was a non-binding referendum in a representative democracy. Business as usual, nothing to see here, move along.

[curley]

	Quote:	baboon
	...and duly passed! https://www.theguardian.com/politics...exit-deal-vote (as it's a breaking news link I guess it might disappear or be changed later)

<<Theresa May will be obliged to present MPs with a new Brexit plan within three days>>
LOL. They think May is the queen and it's 1707?

How about those who know exactly what they don't want come up with a solution? And "let's pretend nothing ever happened" is not a solution.
Neither is "we don't like it, you go make it right".

GB is not the only one with an unpleasant, "no-more-negotiable" contract with EU on the table. If the EU truly refuses to talk any further the decision to make is: Take it or decline it. The way to reach a decision is by talking it over. In a decent manner.


I sure wish an other country had been the first to leave the EU.