The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[aSwissInTheUS]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Also, there's a decent idea for the wording of a 2nd Referendum being bandied about where the ballot paper is still a binary option, but the Leave vote is subdivided into which form of deal you want.

The would be a stupid ballot, as only the leaver could decide about what deal should be use. It must be either two separate question:

1. Do you want the Brexit? (thankfully to the EU court ruling this question is now an option)
2. If a majority is for Brexit should it be deal or no deal?

or as used on Swiss ballots, with three question.

1. Do you want a Brexit with a deal?
2. Do you want a Brexit with no deal?
3. In case both have a majority do you prefer deal or no deal?

[Fish Paste]

	Quote:	aSwissInTheUS
	Most consumer will buy what ever is cheaper. US chicken can be raised a lot cheaper, thus the need of chlorine washing after slaughtering. https://theconversation.com/chlorine...n-the-eu-81921

The need for chlorine washing is not because of the way the chicken is raised, it's what happens afterwards, and even then, it's questionable that the US chicken processing factories have lower standards than the EU.

A chlorinated sprayed chicken is less likley to have salmonella and campylobacter etc. Can't argue with that.

[bowlie]

Media rumblings indicate that a growing number of Member States could/would agree to an extension of the 29 March 2019 deadline.

This confuses me. They won't amend the proposed agreement but they have hopes that the agreement on the table could be agreed by parliament at a later date?

About the only benefit I can see to a delay is that both sides could be better prepared for the chaos to come.

What am I missing here?

	Quote:	Fish Paste
	The need for chlorine washing is not because of the way the chicken is raised, it's what happens afterwards, and even then, it's questionable that the US chicken processing factories have lower standards than the EU. A chlorinated sprayed chicken is less likley to have salmonella and campylobacter etc. Can't argue with that.

Actually, the reasoning behind the chlorine washing is that it compensates for sloppy hygiene pre-slaughter and pre-processing. The EU bans it more for this fact than the chlorine itself. Animals should be hygienically handled throughout.

	Quote:	bowlie
	Media rumblings indicate that a growing number of Member States could/would agree to an extension of the 29 March 2019 deadline. This confuses me. They won't amend the proposed agreement but they have hopes that the agreement on the table could be agreed by parliament at a later date? About the only benefit I can see to a delay is that both sides could be better prepared for the chaos to come. What am I missing here?

Quietly gives time for any necessary general election and/or new referendum maybe?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Has anyone in the LP been sent out to look for David Miliband? Or Starmer, can he not take over? Can we have a LP coup and a new referendum?

Though he recently topped a whole host of prefered Labour leader polls, D. Miliband is no longer an elected MP and now resident in NYC. Problem.

As for a coup, remember what happened to Labour immediately after Cameron resigned?

I really didn't like Corbyn's manner when he announced the vote of no confidence. He allowed himself to get angry instead of appearing to be more statesman like, and by the end, was like a spitting cobra. There was no need for that. More decorum, less venom.

What May and Corbyn have in common is that they're both stubborn as hell, are only open to a very select few, and hate to be in the same room with each other. When we need cross party talks as a matter of urgency, and as Umunna pointed out this morning, there are only 37 working days left until Brexit, it's up to everyone bar the leaders to crack on with things, thus making both party leaders defunct. Oh FFS!!!

[Fish Paste]

	Quote:
	Actually, the reasoning behind the chlorine washing is that it compensates for sloppy hygiene pre-slaughter and pre-processing. The EU bans it more for this fact than the chlorine itself. Animals should be hygienically handled throughout.

Agreed standards need to be high, no idea if the US accepts poor food hygeine, wouldn’t have thought so, but with 9 billion chickens per year being consumed, the chlorine rinsing is just another tool in the chest.

Not that I fancy US chicken anyway, there are enough producers in EU, as FMF points out.

	Quote:	Fish Paste
	The need for chlorine washing is not because of the way the chicken is raised, it's what happens afterwards, and even then, it's questionable that the US chicken processing factories have lower standards than the EU. A chlorinated sprayed chicken is less likley to have salmonella and campylobacter etc. Can't argue with that.

Wrong. It is exactly needed because the non-existent welfare standards in the US allow much denser flocks leading to a much higher rate of infection.

Even better - it doesn't actually work. Just masks the infections in tests.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nella-listeria

[Fish Paste]

	Quote:
	Wrong. It is exactly needed because the non-existent welfare standards in the US allow much denser flocks leading to a much higher rate of infection. Even better - it doesn't actually work. Just masks the infections in tests. https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nella-listeria

I stand corrected then.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Though he recently topped a whole host of prefered Labour leader polls, D. Miliband is no longer an elected MP and now resident in NYC. Problem. As for a coup, remember what happened to Labour immediately after Cameron resigned? I really didn't like Corbyn's manner when he announced the vote of no confidence. He allowed himself to get angry instead of appearing to be more statesman like, and by the end, was like a spitting cobra. There was no need for that. More decorum, less venom. What May and Corbyn have in common is that they're both stubborn as hell, are only open to a very select few, and hate to be in the same room with each other. When we need cross party talks as a matter of urgency, and as Umunna pointed out this morning, there are only 37 working days left until Brexit, it's up to everyone bar the leaders to crack on with things, thus making both party leaders defunct. Oh FFS!!!

Ha! I read Corbyn's anger as frustration at the increasing lack of support he is now faced with from within the LP and the country as a whole. He must know his time is almost up.

I wonder if changes in leadership across the parties will force them to kick this messy football down the road.. and the EU elections in May might have an positive/negative affect on future negotiations anyway - potentially more disruptive, chaotic, who knows?

[Blueangel]

Dang!

	Quote:
	Faisal Islam‏Verified account @faisalislam Faisal Islam Retweeted Guy Verhofstadt Verhofstadt putting time limit of two months on any Article 50 extension... Faisal Islam added, Guy VerhofstadtVerified account @guyverhofstadt What we will not let happen, deal or no deal, is that the mess in British politics is again imported into European politics. While we understand the UK could need more time, for us it is unthinkable that article 50 is prolonged beyond the European Elections. #Brexit #EPlenary 5:27 AM - 16 Jan 2019

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/stat...28993762369537

[marton]

	Quote:	aSwissInTheUS
	The would be a stupid ballot, as only the leaver could decide about what deal should be use. It must be either two separate question: 1. Do you want the Brexit? (thankfully to the EU court ruling this question is now an option) 2. If a majority is for Brexit should it be deal or no deal? or as used on Swiss ballots, with three question. 1. Do you want a Brexit with a deal? 2. Do you want a Brexit with no deal? 3. In case both have a majority do you prefer deal or no deal?

I am not sure the great British unwashed could handle three questions; they would probably tick two of them, or maybe all

I do not trust Corbyn to deal with this débâcle, and neither do an increasing number of his own MPs:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rXFJXUkurGlOKk

[Fish Paste]

	Quote:
	I do not trust Corbyn to deal with this débâcle, and neither do an increasing number of his own MPs: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rXFJXUkurGlOKk

Corbyn cannot win anything, but the Tories could lose something, and he gets a win by default.

JC's approach is to complain about everything, but offer no solution to anything. He's worse than the worse of the Brexiteers when he says 'Trust me, it will all be ok in my hands'.

He wouldn't last a day in any company complaining and offering no solutions.

Let's see Diane Abbott at the high table!

[Belgianmum]

	Quote:
	I do not trust Corbyn to deal with this débâcle, and neither do an increasing number of his own MPs: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rXFJXUkurGlOKk

I wouldn’t trust Corbyn to be able to wipe his own backside.

[curley]

	Quote:	aSwissInTheUS
	The would be a stupid ballot, as only the leaver could decide about what deal should be use. It must be either two separate question: 1. Do you want the Brexit? (thankfully to the EU court ruling this question is now an option) 2. If a majority is for Brexit should it be deal or no deal? or as used on Swiss ballots, with three question. 1. Do you want a Brexit with a deal? 2. Do you want a Brexit with no deal? 3. In case both have a majority do you prefer deal or no deal?

eeeehhm, no. In this case the Swiss way would be:
1. Do you want Brexit?
2. Do you want to stay within the EU?
3. In case Brexit has a majority, do you prefer deal or no deal?

How could deal and no deal both have a majority anyway? ROFL .... on the other hand, one thing with learnt the past two years is that anything is wanted to be possible in GB which is why nothing ever happens.

[st2lemans]

"May - We are leaving the EU on March 29"

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-b...nwYXN8mgPz3xd4

Tom

[aSwissInTheUS]

	Quote:	curley
	eeeehhm, no. In this case the Swiss way would be: 1. Do you want Brexit? 2. Do you want to stay within the EU? 3. In case Brexit has a majority, do you prefer deal or no deal?

Aemm. 1. Yes. 2. Yes.

I showed the Swiss Way. You know, Vorschlag, Gegenvorschlag, Stichfrage.
Examples are the Ausschaffungsinitative. An rare example where actually both passed was the Canton ZH Hundegesetz in 2008.

	Quote:	curley
	How could deal and no deal both have a majority anyway? ROFL

If you want the Brexit no matter what than you would say yes to both.

[Belgianmum]

And she just manages to hang on in there.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Belgianmum
	And she just manages to hang on in there.

...and she's giving a speech from Downing Street at 22:03 apparently. Hope Larry the Cat makes an appearance. #LarryforPM

[st2lemans]

And you lot wine about Trump!

Tom