The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH - Page 838

amogles · #**16741** 24.01.2019, 15:15

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	So in other words, preventing member states from either making it impossibly red-tape-jump-through-hoops-level complicated or giving it away to the highest bidders cos they're rich? Basically, d@mned for leveling the playing field. Barstewards

The last I heard, every EU member state can still set its own rules regarding citizenship. And they may have very valid reasons to have their own special loopholes.

If the EU wants to go in and create a proper European citizenship, meaning the same rules should apply across the board and strictly no exceptions, they should by all means go ahead and discuss that with a view to making it into legislation by due democratoic process.

But without having done that, they don''t have a mandate to meddle in matters outside of their competency. It's exactly this type of back door activism that gives the EU a bad name.

Sandgrounder · #**16742** 24.01.2019, 15:27

	Quote:	amogles
	The last I heard, every EU member state can still set its own rules regarding citizenship. And they may have very valid reasons to have their own special loopholes. If the EU wants to go in and create a proper European citizenship, meaning the same rules should apply across the board and strictly no exceptions, they should by all means go ahead and discuss that with a view to making it into legislation by due democratoic process. But without having done that, they don''t have a mandate to meddle in matters outside of their competency. It's exactly this type of back door activism that gives the EU a bad name.

Curtailing rich people from basically buying their way into the EU is hardly "back door activism", is it? I think it would be seen worse by the other member states if the EU was turning a blind eye to it.

"Special loopholes" LOL.

You don't have to look far to see the anti-EU shouters are probably more into questionable practices than the EU they are campaigning against.

amogles · #**16743** 24.01.2019, 15:49

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	Curtailing rich people from basically buying their way into the EU is hardly "back door activism", is it? I think it would be seen worse by the other member states if the EU was turning a blind eye to it.

I don't see what's wrong with giving "rich brown people" a fast track to citizenship, especially if "rich brown people" is code for entrepreneurs and business owners who will use their money to create jobs and grow the economy.

The main reason that people may want to restrict access to citizenship is fear that this will create additinal claims on social support and welfare. Rich people are unlikely to do that. In the best case they create a lot of additional wealth, and in the worste case they stay quiet and do nothing and are thus economically neutral. The only reason that I can see that people would resent them coming is racism. Racism and resentmenmt of poeple more succesful than themselves.

Sandgrounder · #**16744** 24.01.2019, 15:58

	Quote:	amogles
	I don't see what's wrong with giving "rich brown people" a fast track to citizenship, especially if "rich brown people" is code for entrepreneurs and business owners who will use their money to create jobs and grow the economy. The main reason that people may want to restrict access to citizenship is fear that this will create additinal claims on social support and welfare. Rich people are unlikely to do that. In the best case they create a lot of additional wealth, and in the worste case they stay quiet and do nothing and are thus economically neutral. The only reason that I can see that people would resent them coming is racism. Racism and resentmenmt of poeple more succesful than themselves.

Is "the only reason you can see" the only reason, though?

Doesn't sound very stable ground on which to base anything more significant than a narrow minded opinion. But hey, that seems to be the new politics.

marton · #**16745** 24.01.2019, 16:14

	Quote:	amogles
	I don't see what's wrong with giving "rich brown people" a fast track to citizenship, especially if "rich brown people" is code for entrepreneurs and business owners who will use their money to create jobs and grow the economy. The main reason that people may want to restrict access to citizenship is fear that this will create additinal claims on social support and welfare. Rich people are unlikely to do that. In the best case they create a lot of additional wealth, and in the worste case they stay quiet and do nothing and are thus economically neutral. The only reason that I can see that people would resent them coming is racism. Racism and resentmenmt of poeple more succesful than themselves.

Another reason is, like here!, people are concerned new comers will bring change as in the country's "culture", whatever that is!

Odile · #**16746** 24.01.2019, 16:29

FTSE has lost more value in past 12 months than all the money paid by UK to EU in last 45 years since we joined - and we haven't left yet ...

Interesting that demographics alone, never mind those who have changed their mind, and the lies, fraud, foreign interference and manipulation -
now make 'the people' 'remain' just on virtue of the old who have died since and the young who are now able to vote. An informed vote on the current situation seems totally democratic then, no?

StirB · #**16747** 24.01.2019, 16:30

	Quote:	amogles
	I don't see what's wrong with giving "rich brown people" a fast track to citizenship, especially if "rich brown people" is code for entrepreneurs and business owners who will use their money to create jobs and grow the economy.

They aren't the people in question - it's the dubious Russians buying citizenship and laundering money in Cyprus that people are probably more concerned about.

Sandgrounder · #**16748** 24.01.2019, 16:38

	Quote:	Odile
	FTSE has lost more value in past 12 months than all the money paid by UK to EU in last 45 years since we joined - and we haven't left yet ...

The Brexit boffins will be out in force explaining in some convoluted equation that it as actually an INCREASE in value.

amogles · #**16749** 24.01.2019, 16:54

	Quote:	marton
	Another reason is, like here!, people are concerned new comers will bring change as in the country's "culture", whatever that is!

Such as lowering the crime rate in Sweden?

amogles · #**16750** 24.01.2019, 16:56

	Quote:	Odile
	FTSE has lost more value in past 12 months than all the money paid by UK to EU in last 45 years since we joined - and we haven't left yet ... Interesting that demographics alone, never mind those who have changed their mind, and the lies, fraud, foreign interference and manipulation - now make 'the people' 'remain' just on virtue of the old who have died since and the young who are now able to vote. An informed vote on the current situation seems totally democratic then, no?

as you maybe mention once before, or maybe a bit more than once.

Sandgrounder · #**16751** 24.01.2019, 17:02

	Quote:	amogles
	Such as lowering the crime rate in Sweden?

What kind of crime?

amogles · #**16752** 24.01.2019, 17:15

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	What kind of crime?

Ask Marton.

I think you even thanked his post last time he brought the topic uip.

Sandgrounder · #**16753** 24.01.2019, 17:29

	Quote:	amogles
	Ask Marton. I think you even thanked his post last time he brought the topic uip.

It was you that brought up crime a few posts ago, though, and I was asking for clarification.

If you can't, you can't. No reason to deflect it.

amogles · #**16754** 24.01.2019, 19:11

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	It was you that brought up crime a few posts ago, though, and I was asking for clarification. If you can't, you can't. No reason to deflect it.

Just pointing out an inconsistency in your reactions.

Marton brings it up, you thank him.

I bring exactly the same point uip (in a tongue in cheek manner) and you want clarification.

And marton even thanks you for asking for clarification of his own argument.

Maybe you two are confusing the messenger with the message.

amogles · #**16755** 24.01.2019, 19:47

	Quote:	StirB
	They aren't the people in question - it's the dubious Russians buying citizenship and laundering money in Cyprus that people are probably more concerned about.

Maybe I'm getting different news than I am, but most of the angry people frothing at the mouth stories I've been reading have been about vile Indian and Chinese buinessmen being fast tracked for citizenship because they're putting big money on the tables of the poorer EU countries, and probably not even taking up residency but just keeping their new passport in their back pocket as an insurance.

Odile · #**16756** 24.01.2019, 19:51

Demographics:

https://www.facebook.com/20679409666...5895006944085/

amogles · #**16757** 24.01.2019, 20:14

	Quote:	Odile
	Demographics: https://www.facebook.com/20679409666...5895006944085/

Some people who voted leave have died.

Some people who voted remain didn't die.

Which is a good thing, as otherwise they might now be dead.

marton · #**16758** 24.01.2019, 20:23

	Quote:	amogles
	Just pointing out an inconsistency in your reactions. Marton brings it up, you thank him. I bring exactly the same point uip (in a tongue in cheek manner) and you want clarification. And marton even thanks you for asking for clarification of his own argument. Maybe you two are confusing the messenger with the message.

I am confused, when did I ever mention crime and Sweden in this thread?

Pause to install my sarcasm head and then to make suitable postings about alcohol and/or wrong tablets.

You seem to be exploring the outer galactic fringes of Whataboutism.

amogles · #**16759** 24.01.2019, 20:26

	Quote:	marton
	I am confused, when did I ever mention crime and Sweden in this thread?

Obviosuly you bear no responibility whatsoever for anything you mention in any other thread?

fatmanfilms · #**16760** 24.01.2019, 20:34

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	Curtailing rich people from basically buying their way into the EU is hardly "back door activism", is it? I think it would be seen worse by the other member states if the EU was turning a blind eye to it. "Special loopholes" LOL. You don't have to look far to see the anti-EU shouters are probably more into questionable practices than the EU they are campaigning against.

Switzerland allows rich people to rock up & do tax deals, not only EU countries.