The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	The UK government doesn’t agree. Most EU trade agreements will be replicated by Brexit day - trade department minister

The article only suggests that the trade agreements will roll over UNLESS there's a no deal. Is that the point you are making? I thought you were on the "no deal" side of things?

[bowlie]

OK thanks, nothing has changed.

Happy Great British Break Offing.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	bowlie
	OK thanks, nothing has changed. Happy Great British Break Offing.

	Quote:
	Larry the Cat‏ @Number10cat Folgen @Number10cat folgen If Brexit were a cat...

https://twitter.com/Number10cat/stat...93208845557761

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	So the answer to rising Euroscepism is MORE Europe? Let’s see how that works out.

Oh, if it was only the "Euroscepticism" we were talking about. No, you can't shove "Europe" down some people's throat. But far-right parties and fascist doctrines will never solve any issue either, be it economical, social or whatever.

How ironic everything is. We're talking about less Europe - some expats living a nice, sheltered life in Switzerland.....

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	The article only suggests that the trade agreements will roll over UNLESS there's a no deal. Is that the point you are making? I thought you were on the "no deal" side of things?

I don't read it like that, just that a deal will result in less time pressure to finalise the roll-over agreements.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Desperate indeed, and the irony is that they could always sign their own trade deals with customs union partners. Others have... https://twitter.com/faisalislam/stat...52879564726273

The article also contradicts this statement:

"“Some of them are challenging, one or two are even more than challenging - they are close to impossible,” he added, citing Turkey as one such difficult country as it is part of a customs union with the European Union."

	Quote:	greenmount
	Oh, if it was only the "Euroscepticism" we were talking about. No, you can't shove "Europe" down some people's throat. But far-right parties and fascist doctrines will never solve any issue either, be it economical, social or whatever. How ironic everything is. We're talking about less Europe - some expats living a nice, sheltered life in Switzerland.....

To clarify I mean the EU, which Switzerland does very well out of not being a member of.

The far-right isn't the cause, it's the symptom. You want rid of the far-right? Then treat the cause.

[st2lemans]

	Quote:	greenmount
	How ironic everything is. We're talking about less Europe - some expats living a nice, sheltered life in Switzerland.....

I've always been anti EU since it's inception, and one of the reasons that I became Swiss was so that I could do my part to keep us out of that mess.

Also, the EU has NEVER done anything for me or my family.

Tom

[StirB]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	You want rid of the far-right? Then treat the cause.

Not sure you can do that whilst maintaining a free press.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	StirB
	Not sure you can do that whilst maintaining a free press.

Screaming hatred seems to be selling quite nicely. I doubt they'll rein it in any time soon.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	You want rid of the far-right? Then treat the cause.

So we should have got rid of the EU in the 1930s?

[StirB]

	Quote:	st2lemans
	I've always been anti EU since it's inception, and one of the reasons that I became Swiss was so that I could do my part to keep us out of that mess. Also, the EU has NEVER done anything for me or my family. Tom

Oh, now now Tom - you strike me as a man who likes to get the budgy-smugglers on and head down to a nice clean sea for a bit of a paddle.

The EU is at the forefront of environmental legislation, so whilst you might feel they've never done anything directly for you, i'm sure you've derived plenty of indirect benefits.

	Quote:	StirB
	Not sure you can do that whilst maintaining a free press.

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	Screaming hatred seems to be selling quite nicely. I doubt they'll rein it in any time soon.

The press is dying. We haz the internetz now.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	So we should have got rid of the EU in the 1930s?

Ask yourself what caused the rise of the Nazis in the first place.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Oh, if it was only the "Euroscepticism" we were talking about. No, you can't shove "Europe" down some people's throat. But far-right parties and fascist doctrines will never solve any issue either, be it economical, social or whatever.

You have the sitting politicians, who seem to be the problem. Then you have the extreme right, who are the effect. Then there is the solution, which is undefined yet. It would be good if politicians would go back to their roots and try to understand why people vote for Orban for AfD, and address immediate concerns like migration or unemployment, and for the long term also themes like the democratic gap and be clear what the future scope of the EU should be.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	The press is dying. We haz the internetz now.

I didn't mean the print media. Advertisers will daub their adverts on any old news site which is garnering clicks and shares. If you want clicks and shares you have to post stuff which gets the hard-of-thinking popping a vein and coming back for more.

Although having said that, advertisers seem to be rethinking this now and whether being associated with hate-spitting tabloids is actually doing them more harm than good.

[st2lemans]

	Quote:	StirB
	Oh, now now Tom - you strike me as a man who likes to get the budgy-smugglers on and head down to a nice clean sea for a bit of a paddle. The EU is at the forefront of environmental legislation, so whilst you might feel they've never done anything directly for you, i'm sure you've derived plenty of indirect benefits.

Tom

[StirB]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	The press is dying. We haz the internetz now.

The Daily Mail Online has taken up the slack and then some - it has about 11.5m views a day, just over a third from the UK. A good chunk of adults are still getting their views from Newspapers (paper or online) with editors with agendas - the best selling and most read of which, in the main, are anti-EU slanting and have been since day dot.

[st2lemans]

How does this work?

Tom

	Quote:	StirB
	The Daily Mail Online has taken up the slack and then some - it has about 11.5m views a day, just over a third from the UK. A good chunk of adults are still getting their views from Newspapers (paper or online) with editors with agendas - the best selling and most read of which, in the main, are anti-EU slanting and have been since day dot.

If you believe older middle class women are to blame for the rise of the far-right

Monthly reach of Daily Mail and The Mail on Sunday newspapers in Great Britain from October 2017 to September 2018, by demographic group (in 1,000s)

[bigblue2]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Ask yourself what caused the rise of the Nazis in the first place.

germany being bankrupted by having to pay reparations for ww1 ?

Not really relevant to brexit unless I'm missing something

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Ask yourself what caused the rise of the Nazis in the first place.

Funny you should mention that. Apart from economic and social problems, first of all it appealed to Germans because some of them never accepted the WWI outcome, considering they suffered a great injustice. I suppose you heard of Nazi propaganda machine and the catharsis they found. It seems the catharsis these days is hating EU, immigration and immigrants, refugees, Islam, etc etc.