Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16881  
Old 28.01.2019, 16:17
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 10,682
Groaned at 81 Times in 72 Posts
Thanked 16,185 Times in 7,188 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
you can't create an absolutist dictatorship using peaceful means, not even on Endor
Lord Havelock Vetinari tends to disagree.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #16882  
Old 28.01.2019, 16:33
StirB's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,496
Groaned at 147 Times in 129 Posts
Thanked 6,243 Times in 2,678 Posts
StirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Lord Havelock Vetinari tends to disagree.
I suspect that he might not have used purely peaceful means to come to power and certainly doesn't adopt a pacifist approach to maintaining power
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank StirB for this useful post:
  #16883  
Old 28.01.2019, 16:44
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: close to the frontier
Posts: 1,063
Groaned at 141 Times in 86 Posts
Thanked 597 Times in 379 Posts
Clocker has become a little unpopular
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

No-deal Brexit 'to leave shelves empty' warn retailers...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47028748

Better start stocking up!!
Reply With Quote
  #16884  
Old 28.01.2019, 17:16
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 8,265
Groaned at 266 Times in 216 Posts
Thanked 10,709 Times in 5,710 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
As long as the old guard in Europe continue to generate excuses for this type of thing rather than turning around and condemning it, they are not going to gain much credibility.

And as long as the governments of France, Germany etc refuse to condemn it, that can be understood as meaning, that they cannot rule out doing the same to their own people.

A bit like what is happening in France right now?
What about France? What happens there has nothing to do with EU. Or the National Front, unless you suggest all those protesters are members or will soon become members....

As for condemning police violence, if they would do that some people will be up in arms because EU is giving lectures to independent countries....damned if they do, damned if they don't. Really, let's discuss when EU is supposed to interfere because I'm getting very contradictory opinions..
Reply With Quote
  #16885  
Old 28.01.2019, 17:38
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,887
Groaned at 215 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 20,938 Times in 8,925 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
What about France? What happens there has nothing to do with EU. Or the National Front, unless you suggest all those protesters are members or will soon become members....
I don't see whatb the National Front has to do with any of this.

Quote:
View Post
As for condemning police violence, if they would do that some people will be up in arms because EU is giving lectures to independent countries....damned if they do, damned if they don't. Really, let's discuss when EU is supposed to interfere because I'm getting very contradictory opinions..
It's not primarily about condemining police violence. It's about interfering in an independent country and backing an opposition leader who, back when he was in power personally and single.handedly authorized this police violence and later mocked it on a live mic. As a result this once ruling party is down to single figures in the opinion polls, but Merkel and Macron think despite that this guy ought to be back in power because they think that's democracy. They don't understand how through actions like this they are pissing away their last claims to respectability or decency.

Anyway, I was only trying to respond to k_and_e's point about why people voted as they did.
Reply With Quote
  #16886  
Old 28.01.2019, 17:46
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 205
Groaned at 17 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 288 Times in 161 Posts
John William has earned the respect of manyJohn William has earned the respect of manyJohn William has earned the respect of many
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Well from what I've been hearing on the news - the many migrants who are waiting and
looking at ways to cross the Channel are welcoming the news that France will be opening
up lorry parks on the French side of the Channel, in the event of a No deal Brexit.

As they say it's the best news they could ever have hoped for, from a no deal Brexit
- as that would leave them with plenty of time to prise open the doors on the back of
the lorries and other vehicles stuck in the lorry parks overnight and during the day.

In fact many of them are joking that the Lorry Parks will become their new migrant camps !!
Reply With Quote
  #16887  
Old 28.01.2019, 17:50
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,887
Groaned at 215 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 20,938 Times in 8,925 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Well from what I've been hearing on the news - the many migrants who are waiting and

looking at ways to cross the Channel are welcoming the news that France will be opening
up lorry parks on the French side of the Channel.


As they say it's the best news they could have ever have hoped for, from a no deal Brexit
- as that would leave them with plenty of time to prise open the doors on the back of
the lorries and other vehicles stuckin the lorry parks overnight and during the day.


In fact many of them are joking that the Lorry Parks will become their new migrant camps !!
So in other words, plenty of people who are ready to risk their lives to get out of the so-wonderfiul EU and don't believe that the Uk is doomed.

Maybe somebody could distribute UKIP membership forms in the lorry camps?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #16888  
Old 28.01.2019, 17:56
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 205
Groaned at 17 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 288 Times in 161 Posts
John William has earned the respect of manyJohn William has earned the respect of manyJohn William has earned the respect of many
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
So in other words, plenty of people who are ready to risk their lives to get out of the so-wonderfiul EU and don't believe that the Uk is doomed.

Maybe somebody could distribute UKIP membership forms in the lorry camps?
Yes it's amazing what many migrants will do to get to a place that already speaks their second language.

Reply With Quote
  #16889  
Old 28.01.2019, 18:19
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 7,275
Groaned at 257 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 15,461 Times in 5,402 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Well from what I've been hearing on the news - the many migrants who are waiting and
looking at ways to cross the Channel are welcoming the news that France will be opening
up lorry parks on the French side of the Channel, in the event of a No deal Brexit.

As they say it's the best news they could ever have hoped for, from a no deal Brexit
- as that would leave them with plenty of time to prise open the doors on the back of
the lorries and other vehicles stuck in the lorry parks overnight and during the day.

In fact many of them are joking that the Lorry Parks will become their new migrant camps !!

So EU country France is actually copying the Erdogan migration tactic by threatening to overflow a country with migrants. Would you be proud to be part of such an EU?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
  #16890  
Old 28.01.2019, 18:21
Today only's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 8,031
Groaned at 890 Times in 608 Posts
Thanked 10,037 Times in 4,769 Posts
Today only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
No-deal Brexit 'to leave shelves empty' warn retailers...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47028748

Better start stocking up!!



Whilst the UK shelves may be empty as no European product is being imported, Europe cannot aborbe in to their own food chain the amount the UK imports, so the net result will be Europe loses revenue, the farmers will become unhappy quickly


I wonder how long imports will be blocked for ?
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Today only for this useful post:
  #16891  
Old 28.01.2019, 18:31
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,887
Groaned at 215 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 20,938 Times in 8,925 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Whilst the UK shelves may be empty as no European product is being imported, Europe cannot aborbe in to their own food chain the amount the UK imports, so the net result will be Europe loses revenue, the farmers will become unhappy quickly


I wonder how long imports will be blocked for ?
Not just the farmers, also the truck drivers.

And those are two groups of people who have a bit of a history of making their grievances known.
Reply With Quote
  #16892  
Old 28.01.2019, 18:36
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,887
Groaned at 215 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 20,938 Times in 8,925 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Yes it's amazing what many migrants will do to get to a place that already speaks their second language.

Because risking your life to go and scrape a living in a doomed and retarded sh#ithole country is easier than learning a new language and living out the rest of your days in paradise?
Reply With Quote
  #16893  
Old 28.01.2019, 18:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 7,743
Groaned at 262 Times in 225 Posts
Thanked 9,296 Times in 4,892 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
It was actually Hitler who took the project of a German superstate to its conclusion. Prior to Hitler, for example, there was no such thing as a proper German citizenship and for the most part, people were still citizens of their respective states.

What a pity that after Hitler was defeated that they didn't annul that legislation.
There was no such thing as a nation state before the 19th century, what you had was nobility conquering whatever and as much as they could. Commoners didn't have passports and stuff, the underlying bureaucracy didn't exist yet and nobody (outside of the top 5%) travelled for leisure, they were busy trying to survive (*).

(*) Slight dramatisation and simplification but you get the picture.


Quote:
I wonder where else we see an unnatural superstate being created by force (albeit political and economic rather than physical) People don't tend to dig this sort of thing.
There is no such thing as a natural state. Every state (a few exceptions may exist) was at least to a significant degree created by the use of force.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #16894  
Old 28.01.2019, 18:37
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
No-deal Brexit 'to leave shelves empty' warn retailers...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47028748

Better start stocking up!!
The tissue shelves are the only ones that’ll be empty.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #16895  
Old 28.01.2019, 19:06
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,887
Groaned at 215 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 20,938 Times in 8,925 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
There was no such thing as a nation state before the 19th century, what you had was nobility conquering whatever and as much as they could. Commoners didn't have passports and stuff, the underlying bureaucracy didn't exist yet and nobody (outside of the top 5%) travelled for leisure, they were busy trying to survive (*).
Before the 19th Centiry, states didn't build their justification around concepts of common ethnicity, history or language, but you just happened to be part of state A because some king or duke had conquered the bit of land you lived on, or sold it or given it as a dowry to some other king or duke. How you felt about that as an individual didn't come into it.

It was only really the 1848 revolutions that led to this changing. These movements leadi to the birth of a romantically rooted nationalism, intertwined with democratic yearnings.

Bismark's unification of Germany built on that and furthered some of the points while suppressing others.

It was WW1 and especially the peace settlement after that which basically redraw the map of not only Europe but also the Middle East and that gave nationalism a new meaning and moved it from being a vague theoretical concept to something that governed real politics. Many smaller countries came into existence on the justification of having a common language and / or ethinicity. And by consequence created the means for them to vent their anger on those minorities that didn't share that common ethnicity or language.

So Macron was actually quuite wrong when he recently pronounced that the ending and peace settlement of WW1 was a major step against nationalism. Quite the contrary, it set a lot of things into motion, including the recent wars in Yugoslavia and even what is presently happening in Syria.

In fact it was quite easy for Hitler to light the powder keg.

Quote:
View Post
There is no such thing as a natural state. Every state (a few exceptions may exist) was at least to a significant degree created by the use of force.
I agree.

But such things should remain in the past. One would hope that today we are smarter, and that we can resist the urge to re-draw the map.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #16896  
Old 28.01.2019, 19:28
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 8,265
Groaned at 266 Times in 216 Posts
Thanked 10,709 Times in 5,710 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I don't see whatb the National Front has to do with any of this.

---------------------------------
Anyway, I was only trying to respond to k_and_e's point about why people voted as they did.
Yes, and I was trying to say that your example - current problems in France, hasn't much to do with the rise of European far-right parties.
People vote the way they vote for a multitude of things - promises made by politicians during campaigns, fear, hate even, personal circumstances they don't know whom to blame for, out of loyalty for a certain party or a misguided patriotism, goodness knows what. Mostly because a party has a really good campaign that targets specific groups of people, lying, dividing, creating antagonisms and the "us vs. them" situations. Lately it has become the "liberal retards" vs. "the good, hard working people of...". (it's like we are all living in a global village called..."Idaho")

That type of politics hasn't led us anywhere good, and as it seems so far, is making the situation even worse in the USA. Far-right and populism won't solve unemployment, poverty, migration etc.

Last edited by greenmount; 28.01.2019 at 19:47.
Reply With Quote
  #16897  
Old 28.01.2019, 19:38
Fish Paste's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: North
Posts: 1,073
Groaned at 39 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 1,346 Times in 622 Posts
Fish Paste has a reputation beyond reputeFish Paste has a reputation beyond reputeFish Paste has a reputation beyond reputeFish Paste has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I wonder how long imports will be blocked for ?
Or if at all.

The hysteria is rising.

Soon it will be 'Chrysanthemums Crisis!!! The UK will not be able to get fresh flowers as the Dutch lorries will be stuck awaiting blight inspections'.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Fish Paste for this useful post:
  #16898  
Old 28.01.2019, 19:51
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 8,265
Groaned at 266 Times in 216 Posts
Thanked 10,709 Times in 5,710 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
So in other words, plenty of people who are ready to risk their lives to get out of the so-wonderfiul EU and don't believe that the Uk is doomed.

Maybe somebody could distribute UKIP membership forms in the lorry camps?
Most come from the colonies that UK used to have, so language and very possibly - relatives already living there might be a reason for their choice. But in a way you're right - I, for one, will never understand why they prefer UK over France. In terms of racism - things are similar, social services - probably even better in France (being more socialist), food, weather, everything seems better. I guess there's also some sort of pride in the "citizen of the old empire" sense, and the hope they'll be better treated because of this and because of a large immigrant community with the same background already living there.

Let's not joke about these people's hopes. Or push them around from one country to another as if they can't think for themselves.
Reply With Quote
  #16899  
Old 28.01.2019, 19:53
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,161
Groaned at 89 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 8,713 Times in 3,992 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I wonder how long imports will be blocked for ?
My mate's parents, who both voted Leave, have been stockpiling since November. To date, they've filled all the kitchen cupboards, the garage and one of the bedrooms. I sincerely wish I was joking.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #16900  
Old 28.01.2019, 20:11
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 7,275
Groaned at 257 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 15,461 Times in 5,402 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Yes, and I was trying to say that your example - current problems in France, hasn't much to do with the rise of European far-right parties.
People vote the way they vote for a multitude of things - promises made by politicians during campaigns, fear, hate even, personal circumstances they don't know whom to blame for, out of loyalty for a certain party or a misguided patriotism, goodness knows what. Mostly because a party has a really good campaign that targets specific groups of people, lying, dividing, creating antagonisms and the "us vs. them" situations. Lately it has become the "liberal retards" vs. "the good, hard working people of...". (it's like we are all living in a global village called..."Idaho")

That type of politics hasn't led us anywhere good, and as it seems so far, is making the situation even worse in the USA. Far-right and populism won't solve unemployment, poverty, migration etc.
You forgot to mention that the traditional parties have brought us to this situation as they have been in power all the time and obviously had no answer to the concerns of many people.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
europe




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (1 members and 1 guests)
StirB
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Latest Referendum, what will be consequences for EU (C permit and B permit) holders? expat2014 Permits/visas/government 3 11.02.2014 08:59
Importing vehicles and the VAT consequences in Switzerland from France BEFO Finance/banking/taxation 6 07.08.2013 15:11
The (Available in CH) Dog Food Review Thread meloncollie Pet corner 44 08.05.2012 20:15
Common-law marriage and consequences in CH Mishto Family matters/health 9 01.10.2011 22:03
Something for the Brits: M&S in CH mark Daily life 11 15.11.2007 12:18


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:48.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0