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amogles · #**16901** 28.01.2019, 19:46

	Quote:	k_and_e
	You forgot to mention that the traditional parties have brought us to this situation as they have been in power all the time and obviously had no answer to the concerns of many people.

Not just had no answers, but have actively been making the situation woirse, and when cricized their only reaction was to shout "racism".

And then get into a hissy fit when they realize the people they've been insulting have stopped listening to them.

amogles · #**16902** 28.01.2019, 19:51

	Quote:	Blueangel
	My mate's parents, who both voted Leave, have been stockpiling since November. To date, they've filled all the kitchen cupboards, the garage and one of the bedrooms. I sincerely wish I was joking.

I know somebody who did that with incandescent lighbulbs,

#**16903** 28.01.2019, 20:10

	Quote:	amogles
	I know somebody who did that with incandescent lighbulbs,

You'd be incandescent too, if the EU was banning you.

#**16904** 28.01.2019, 20:19

	Quote:	Blueangel
	My mate's parents, who both voted Leave, have been stockpiling since November. To date, they've filled all the kitchen cupboards, the garage and one of the bedrooms. I sincerely wish I was joking.

I bought a large bag of red lentils today.

greenmount · #**16905** 28.01.2019, 20:59

	Quote:	k_and_e
	You forgot to mention that the traditional parties have brought us to this situation as they have been in power all the time and obviously had no answer to the concerns of many people.

Neither the far-right, nor the far-left (see Podemos or Syriza for example*). Unless one is thinking of radical solutions which will create even worse problems after the public euphoria will fade away....Frankly I can't argue with people like that.

It's like saying you're hungry and don't have any food left, and someone takes your bottle of water too to solve your problem.

*well, at least they don't use all the sick tools specific to the far-right.

k_and_e · #**16906** 28.01.2019, 22:11

	Quote:	greenmount
	Neither the far-right, nor the far-left (see Podemos or Syriza for example). Unless one is thinking of radical solutions which will create even worse problems after the public euphoria will fade away....Frankly I can't argue with people like that. It's like saying you're hungry and don't have any food left, and someone takes your bottle of water too to solve your problem. well, at least they don't use all the sick tools specific to the far-right.

You shouldn't think about left or right, as both are similar but on different sides of the spectrum. It's more about what the middle should do to gain credibility.

amogles · #**16907** 28.01.2019, 22:43

	Quote:	greenmount
	Neither the far-right, nor the far-left (see Podemos or Syriza for example). Unless one is thinking of radical solutions which will create even worse problems after the public euphoria will fade away....Frankly I can't argue with people like that. It's like saying you're hungry and don't have any food left, and someone takes your bottle of water too to solve your problem. well, at least they don't use all the sick tools specific to the far-right.

In the past, the centrist parties have responded to the extremes by incorporating some elements of the so-called extremists' policy, often in watered down form. The fringes thus have an important role as incubators for alternative and innovative ideas, the more workable of which get tried and made into policy. This happens both on the left and on the right. At the same time, taking such measures helps rebolster the centre and weaken the extremists.

In recent years, the centrists have been increasingly shutting their ears and eyes to the fringes, meaning the fringes are growing in strength. This is a pretty dangerous situation.

Blueangel · #**16908** 28.01.2019, 23:07

	Quote:	amogles
	In recent years, the centrists have been increasingly shutting their ears and eyes to the fringes, meaning the fringes are growing in strength. This is a pretty dangerous situation.

Quaking in my boots...not!

I've been a centrist all my life. The idiots on both extremes that are knocking about now, are just the kids of the idiots I had pitched battles with in the 80s. Somewhere in the depths of our keller, I've got a book of all the known far right and far left groups in Europe that I've had since about 1984-85. Precious little changes, just the names of the groups and some of the leaders. All these people are just puppets / useful idiots. The puppeteers are the ones that change. That's where you should be looking for the real agenda.

"The honest man has the highest price", and these are bargain basement, cheap political cannon fodder.

Edit: If you really want to understand, start with the Grey Wolves.

greenmount · #**16909** 29.01.2019, 05:58

	Quote:	k_and_e
	You shouldn't think about left or right, as both are similar but on different sides of the spectrum. It's more about what the middle should do to gain credibility.

First of all - not to adopt extremists' tools and tactics in a pathetic attempt to cover all bases? Not to lower standards to regain "credibility" among social groups that for some reason were left behind? Adopt some pragmatic measures not necessarily the same that would make some groups happy.

I have seen what a certain discourse can do even to some otherwise probably nice people. If the otherwise nice, good citizen can become a totally nasty online warrior who declares his contempt and hate towards various things (what a strange feeling of "freedom" some people can feel when dealing with anonymous people on the internet), I don't need to tell you what hate speech can do to the less intelligent and vulnerable ones in real life. These things don't make a place more civilised that other places, quite the contrary. And this is nothing, wait till a real economic crisis will come...I read somewhere that the Western civilisation will end up because of things like toilet paper scarcity.. I thought it was an (very) exaggerated example to make people get the point. It is not, I am pretty sure of that now. I don't have much respect or trust anymore, so I might sound very pessimistic.

Back to right or left wing in the classic sense - both have disappointed and it's probably the time for new parties that are able to find solutions and keep the society civilised. I don't think the older ones are able to reform themselves if the same old, same old people are still in charge. Competing with the extremes to cover all bases is simply wrong. And I don't even mean - morally wrong because I know this is an argument some people here would laugh at.

fatmanfilms · #**16910** 29.01.2019, 07:38

	Quote:	amogles
	I know somebody who did that with incandescent lighbulbs,

A friend did this when Tesco had a half price sale, his car has not fitted in his garage ever since

Clocker · #**16911** 29.01.2019, 07:40

	Quote:	amogles
	I know somebody who did that with incandescent lighbulbs,

Yes and I seem to recall an article about someone doing this with menthol cigarettes a few years ago as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/sh...hol-cigarettes

#**16912** 29.01.2019, 08:01

	Quote:	Blueangel
	My mate's parents, who both voted Leave, have been stockpiling since November. To date, they've filled all the kitchen cupboards, the garage and one of the bedrooms. I sincerely wish I was joking.

Photos or it didn't happen.

#**16913** 29.01.2019, 08:04

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	A friend did this when Tesco had a half price sale, his car has not fitted in his garage ever since

How many friends does it take to get a car in a garage?

#**16914** 29.01.2019, 08:58

	Quote:	amogles
	In the past, the centrist parties have responded to the extremes by incorporating some elements of the so-called extremists' policy, often in watered down form. The fringes thus have an important role as incubators for alternative and innovative ideas, the more workable of which get tried and made into policy. This happens both on the left and on the right. At the same time, taking such measures helps rebolster the centre and weaken the extremists. In recent years, the centrists have been increasingly shutting their ears and eyes to the fringes, meaning the fringes are growing in strength. This is a pretty dangerous situation.

How can they be shutting out the extremists when we are faced with such huge political events as Brexit and Trump? If that was the watered down version of giving the extremists what they want, I'd hate to see it when they really take them at face value.

#**16915** 29.01.2019, 09:08

	Quote:
	Whilst the UK shelves may be empty as no European product is being imported, Europe cannot aborbe in to their own food chain the amount the UK imports, so the net result will be Europe loses revenue, the farmers will become unhappy quickly I wonder how long imports will be blocked for ?

No reason for the EU to do anything to their exports to the UK - the issues will be on the UK side as they try to work out how to apply WTO tariffs on UK imports. All in the UK's hands.

OK, now I understand the panic....

#**16916** 29.01.2019, 09:41

This Brexit bollocks has now become a race to see who can generate the most fear, whether the UK will be able to import, food or medcines, whether the planes will fly, whether we can take our dog on holiday with us, wherther we can visit without a visa....the list is endless, everybody has their own little axe to grind it seems.

The referendum campaign to leave was run on fear and won, it seems now the remainers are also trying to cash in on this "winning formula" by scare mongering about anythning and everything.

Has nobody on either side got anythnig positive to say about this situation ?

Sad, very sad indeed !

amogles · #**16917** 29.01.2019, 10:05

	Quote:	Blueangel
	I've been a centrist all my life. The idiots on both extremes that are knocking about now, are just the kids of the idiots I had pitched battles with in the 80s. Somew

I think it was Rayond Barre who once famously said there are three extremes. There is also an extreme centre, and this can be just as close minded and unwilling to compromise as the extremes of the fringes. And they equally live in the illusion that the world would be a better place for everybody if only everybody was just like them.

amogles · #**16918** 29.01.2019, 10:12

	Quote:
	This Brexit bollocks has now become a race to see who can generate the most fear, whether the UK will be able to import, food or medcines, whether the planes will fly, whether we can take our dog on holiday with us, wherther we can visit without a visa....the list is endless, everybody has their own little axe to grind it seems. !

Not to forget swarms of locusts, insmonia, paradontitis, gravity will stop working and Jeremy Corbyn will get to work as weather forecaster.

#**16919** 29.01.2019, 10:17

	Quote:	amogles
	Not to forget swarms of locusts, insmonia, paradontitis, gravity will stop working and Jeremy Corbyn will get to work as weather forecaster.

Stop it i'm already depressed and on max dosage of Valium

amogles · #**16920** 29.01.2019, 10:18

	Quote:
	How can they be shutting out the extremists when we are faced with such huge political events as Brexit and Trump? If that was the watered down version of giving the extremists what they want, I'd hate to see it when they really take them at face value.

Have you considered that maybe Trump and Brexit would never have happened if they had been more responsive and attuned in the years before that?