The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	bigblue2
	these kind of comments piss me off no end, I come from the S.E and worked in London, but as part of my side lines had to travel all over the UK, and to everyone who says London / the S.E get most of the cash I say this, instead of just repeating what the papers tell you get off your arse and have a look!! the S.E have the worst trains and roads by a mile!! the trains are massively over crowded and eye wateringly expensive, not to mention the worst punctuality, our hospitals are constantly in 'special measures' and our police have some of the worst clear up rates in the country - if they even bother to come out to a crime. Take a train upto that london in rush hour, go on, maybe from one of the towns in kent, oh that's right, you can't as its so expensive your dole money won't cover it, oh and don't park in a station carpark if you value your car. Ok then drive, good luck with that, paid the congestion charge? the dartford toll? oh and parking - LOL not a chance. Our roads are terrible, falling apart, no one is willing to spend anything on infrastructure. Scotland and wales get totally free prescriptions, free uni hell even free hospital car parking, we get none of that. The S.E is the uk's cash cow, yet the rest of the country seem to think we all live in mansions, drive ferrari's and drink champagne all day, and like to shout loudly about it to anyone who'll listen while collecting their tax credits. Now to top it all off because you f***wits voted leave the whole of the S.E is going to become one big gridlocked lorry park, which no doubt southerners will also get the blame for. and breath.

In all fairness, I understand your frustration - transport in general is a mess and around London cripplingly bad...however, London gets HUGE overspend per capita on infrastructure compared to the North...

https://www.theguardian.com/news/dat...h-east-england

The discrepancy is a bit smaller now, but still huge.

[lewton]

	Quote:	bigblue2
	as soon as the EU start passing all the laws and regulations the UK has blocked over the years, and the UK having to accept them, the huge backlash will start. who knows whats best now?? maybe a hard brexit will be the best 'option' after all. so glad I'm here not there.

How many regulations has the UK blocked over the years?
Any non-alternative facts?

[Clocker]

	Quote:
	...whereas every single one of my friends in the UK voted remain. An equally meaningless statement.

Your statement isn't meaningless. It means you don't have very sensible friends!

[bigblue2]

	Quote:
	In all fairness, I understand your frustration - transport in general is a mess and around London cripplingly bad...however, London gets HUGE overspend per capita on infrastructure compared to the North... https://www.theguardian.com/news/dat...h-east-england The discrepancy is a bit smaller now, but still huge.

those figures are kinda misleading ,what are they classing as london? , cross rail is a huge cost, whats included in those cost (eg london underground), does it take into account the money being paid by commuters for their tickets etc etc etc

for instance not many people actually live in the square mile of London proper, so any spend will look stupidly high per capita.

[bigblue2]

How does this work?

	Quote:	bigblue2
	those figures are kinda misleading ,what are they classing as london? , cross rail is a huge cost, whats included in those cost (eg london underground), does it take into account the money being paid by commuters for their tickets etc etc etc for instance not many people actually live in the square mile of London proper, so any spend will look stupidly high per capita.

I think the article covers most of what is spent (yes, Tube included in London) and it isn't all transport - the North's budget pp is actually unfairly swollen by the costs of decommissioning Sellafield, for example. The article states:

"These figures apply to all projects which receive some level of public funding, whose benefits have been bracketed to apply to one specific region. Projects designed to benefit the entire country, such as the High Speed 2 rail line have not been included."

Not sure how much HS2 helps those in the NE, but oh well.

It doesn't appear to be net spend, so not sure TFL ticket prices are too relevant.

[fatjan]

	Quote:	bigblue2
	How does this work?

The truest part of this video is when the rich guy pisses off at the end leaving the rest to foot the bill (Dyson et al).

[curley]

	Quote:	bigblue2
	How does this work?

I was expecting the first four to complain.
I just didn't expect it would be admitted in the viedo.

	Quote:
	How is it propaganda? Are you saying that the EU funding of the roads is factually incorrect? Or that Scotland is often underfunded because of its distance from Westminster? Or what? Seems a bit of a bold and confident dismissal without much to back it up.

It was more a sly dig a StirB Scotland (well done for spotting). But the point about propaganda is valid. I remember going around Malta a couple of years back and these signs were everywhere, any piece of new road, museums etc. All hail the Glorious EU! The Soviet Union would be proud.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	It was more a sly dig a StirB Scotland (well done for spotting). But the point about propaganda is valid. I remember going around Malta a couple of years back and these signs were everywhere, any piece of new road, museums etc. All hail the Glorious EU! The Soviet Union would be proud.

I guess they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. If nobody sees the source of the money being ploughed in it just fuels the "what's the EU ever done for us" mantra, if they advertise the fact then it triggers the propaganda accusations.

I guess it's as valid a point as you want to make it / use it.

Still love the vid of the angry-head being interviewed in some UK town somewhere (vid linked earlier in the thread) bellowing about what the EU hasn't done for the UK, until the the reporter points out that the sports centre directly behind him was actually funded by the EU. Maybe the signs should be in Comic Sans with words no longer than 5 letters...

[amogles]

	Quote:	bigblue2
	the S.E have the worst trains and roads by a mile!! the trains are massively over crowded and eye wateringly expensive, not to mention the worst punctuality, our hospitals are constantly in 'special measures' and our police have some of the worst clear up rates in the country - if they even bother to come out to a crime.

My impression is the opposite. Have you ever tried getting around in rural Wales by bus and train. It's great for sightseeing but it takes hours to get anwhere and you're lucky if you get any service at all after 6pm or on a Sunday.

London's transport system has had plenty of investment and even more is ongoing. All the main train lines go into London. All the main motorways go into London. In fact the transport system is so London-centric that if you want to get from anywhere outside of London to anwhere else outside of London your safest bet is to go via London as the transport links that go crossways are just so bad and slow. The problem with London isn't that there has never been investment. The problem is that there is no joined up thinking and no long term strategy. That's what sets the UK apart from countries like Switzerland. If Switzerland were to double their spending everything would be perfect. If London were to double their spending you wouldn't see any difference,

[curley]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	It was more a sly dig a StirB Scotland (well done for spotting). But the point about propaganda is valid. I remember going around Malta a couple of years back and these signs were everywhere, any piece of new road, museums etc. All hail the Glorious EU! The Soviet Union would be proud.

Same thing in Ireland when I visited around year 2000.
I even remember thinking it was a weird thing for two reasons: 'Why all this obnoxious propaganda' and 'is that what the EU should invest money in, streets?!'

[bigblue2]

	Quote:	fatjan
	The truest part of this video is when the rich guy pisses off at the end leaving the rest to foot the bill (Dyson et al).

when people feel they are being victimised they leave, oh and you may want to check the sunday time list of highest uk tax payers last year, spolier alert, Dyson is the 3rd highest payer of tax in the uk

https://www.news.co.uk/2019/01/the-s...-50-taxpayers/

how much did you pay???

[amogles]

	Quote:	curley
	Same thing in Ireland when I visited around year 2000. I even remember thinking it was a weird thing for two reasons: 'Why all this obnoxious propaganda' and 'is that what the EU should invest money in, streets?!'

and anyway, fixing potholes in a street is maintenance. it's not investment. Another sleazy oversell.

	Quote:	amogles
	and anyway, fixing potholes in a street is maintenance. it's not investment. Another sleazy oversell.

How did you make the massive leap that Curley was talking about potholes?

	Quote:	curley
	Same thing in Ireland when I visited around year 2000. I even remember thinking it was a weird thing for two reasons: 'Why all this obnoxious propaganda' and 'is that what the EU should invest money in, streets?!'

[fatjan]

	Quote:	bigblue2
	when people feel they are being victimised they leave, oh and you may want to check the sunday time list of highest uk tax payers last year, spolier alert, Dyson is the 3rd highest payer of tax in the uk https://www.news.co.uk/2019/01/the-s...-50-taxpayers/ how much did you pay???

£0 in the UK. But I don't remember any free drinks trickling down. The analogy in the video is moronic.

[bigblue2]

	Quote:	fatjan
	£0 in the UK. But I don't remember any free drinks trickling down. The analogy in the video is moronic.

clearly it wasn't dumbed down enough

	Quote:	bigblue2
	when people feel they are being victimised they leave, oh and you may want to check the sunday time list of highest uk tax payers last year, spolier alert, Dyson is the 3rd highest payer of tax in the uk https://www.news.co.uk/2019/01/the-s...-50-taxpayers/ how much did you pay???

How much did they pay, more to the point? This link is a guesstimate based on various public filings. It in no way implies that any of the people paid a single penny of any of that, just what they in theory owed. They also attributed any business profits to the person on a pro-rated level based on their share holdership.

It would be interesting to compare that list to what each person ACTUALLY paid, but only the exchequer can do that I guess.

[McTAVGE]

	Quote:	roegner
	Just drive through Scotland: the amount of roads/bridges/etc with a notice "financed with funds from the EU" is high. Good luck to them now, so far away from London

We know in Scotland how the Tories care for communities and social improvement, equal distribution of wealth and generally looking after the poor, the sick and the unfortunate...

[fatjan]

	Quote:	bigblue2
	clearly it wasn't dumbed down enough

Is this how you see it? As people drinking for free and "beating up" the rich? So we all have to be nice to them in case they feel victimised? Poor poor rich people. It's an insulting narrative you're perpetuating.



Anyway I'd better stop now in case I hurt your feelings and you feel you have to leave too.