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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #17261  
Old 04.02.2019, 22:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Of course, in the UK referendums have to be non binding because Parliament is sovereign.
Which sovereignty is exactly what Brexiteers demand
I think you might need to post this several times more in the coming months for all the Brexiteers who didn't grasp the crux if the Gina Miller case.
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  #17262  
Old 04.02.2019, 22:56
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Yes, our very own, unique, Parliamentary Democracy. It should be in control.
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  #17263  
Old 04.02.2019, 23:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Pity it isn't though. It would be far easier to herd cats (as long as you had a plentiful supply of Dreamies).
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  #17264  
Old 05.02.2019, 01:17
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Latest fab news - taking back control means...

no more checks on vehicles coming into UK from Continent. Really could not make it up if you tried. And would that not be totally against WTO rules too?

Perhaps someone here could make a list of things, animals and people that will be coming in un-checked?
Where have you read that?

A couple of film clips for those who refuse to admit anything if going to change on March 29.

This is a short film of the Swiss / German border, and beneath it, another one featuring a 'white van man' with a damned site more common sense than some I could mention...

https://twitter.com/Stone_SkyNews/st...04106802110465

This is the new border control being built on the French side...

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/stat...19079841296386
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  #17265  
Old 05.02.2019, 01:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

This one's interesting...

Source: Official Royal Mail website, regarding international driving permits:
https://www.postoffice.co.uk/interna...7238c0fac3a71e

Quote:
Driving in the EU after Brexit
The Government has confirmed that if there is no deal with the EU then mutual recognition of driving licences between the UK and EU may end. This would mean that UK drivers wishing to drive in the EU after 29 March 2019 would need to get an IDP.
Now, Spain and France have signed different conventions... so would mean 2x permits needed...

Also on the gov.uk website:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/prepare-...u-after-brexit
Quote:
If you are a UK licence holder living in the EU or EEA you should exchange your UK driving licence for a local EU driving licence before 29 March 2019. From that date, in the event that there is no EU Exit deal, you may have to pass a driving test in the EU country you live in to be able to carry on driving there.

You should consider exchanging your UK driving licence for an EU driving licence as soon as possible. Increased demand may lead to longer processing times and delays to exchanging driving licences the closer it is to 29 March 2019.

You can drive on your EU licence when visiting the UK.

If you return to live in the UK, provided you passed your driving test in the UK or another specified country, you can exchange your EU licence for a UK licence without taking another test
...
...
From 29 March 2019, in the event that there is no EU Exit deal, you may need an IDP in addition to your UK driving licence to drive in EU and EEA countries.
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  #17266  
Old 05.02.2019, 08:48
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Now now, play nice. You talk to me a lot for someone who doesn't want to be my mate...maybe you want something more?
You don't get it. You stepped out of your peasantry zone and talked to the rich and powerful. Know your place, god dammit!
or at least address them more respectfully, natural order should be preserved
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  #17267  
Old 05.02.2019, 09:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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This one's interesting...

Source: Official Royal Mail website, regarding international driving permits:
https://www.postoffice.co.uk/interna...7238c0fac3a71e



Now, Spain and France have signed different conventions... so would mean 2x permits needed...

Also on the gov.uk website:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/prepare-...u-after-brexit
Please, please, please make it happen - namely Jacob Rees-Mogg to take up the reins left by Michael
Portillo in a brand new ( yet to be announced ) series of Great Continental Car Journeys. Where JRM
will be following the routes recommended in the 1960's editon of the Michelin Guide to Europe in his
old blue jalopy; wearing his Panama hat and armed with his ( Made in France ) Blue British passport
and the requisite 1949 and 1968 versions of the International driving permit to
complement his Union Jack emblazoned British driving license.
Upon which once he sets foot on mainland Europe, JRM hopes to entice many Europeans with a
fistfull of French Francs, Deutschmarks, Italian Lira, Spanish Peseta's, etc which the chairman of
the ERG reckons most Europeans ( in the Eurozone ) will find irresistible, after suffering for so
many years under the Euro.



Last edited by John William; 05.02.2019 at 09:38.
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  #17268  
Old 05.02.2019, 09:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Serious question.
Why is it that both the main political parties in the UK both want Brexit?
Is it historical? They were both pre-EU parties.

Forget about the referendum, will of the people BS, that's just an excuse to execute it.

There must be a reason.
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  #17269  
Old 05.02.2019, 10:02
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Serious question.
Why is it that both the main political parties in the UK both want Brexit?
Is it historical? They were both pre-EU parties.

Forget about the referendum, will of the people BS, that's just an excuse to execute it.

There must be a reason.
The people voted in a referendum & no government will go against that. If they did they won't be in government very long.
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  #17270  
Old 05.02.2019, 10:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Serious question.
Why is it that both the main political parties in the UK both want Brexit?
Is it historical? They were both pre-EU parties.

Forget about the referendum, will of the people BS, that's just an excuse to execute it.

There must be a reason.
I think that's why it's so hard to implement. Nobody really wanted it, (apart from a hardcore group of glory-seeking attention-whores) so they are working off a base of doubters from the get-go.

If you asked the people in a referendum "Do you want to pay less taxes all round" and they voted "yes" (d'uh!), the government would then have to implement that regardless of whether they want it or not, because it's the will of the people.
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  #17271  
Old 05.02.2019, 10:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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If you asked the people in a referendum "Do you want to pay less taxes all round" and they voted "yes" (d'uh!), the government would then have to implement that regardless of whether they want it or not, because it's the will of the people.
By doing so more taxes will be collected, proved by Mrs Thatcher's Government in 1979.
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  #17272  
Old 05.02.2019, 10:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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By doing so more taxes will be collected, proved by Mrs Thatcher's Government in 1979.
So?

That wasn't my point. OK, clearly I have to make it a bit simpler...

If you make a referendum that says "Do you want all MPs tattooed with a tramp-stamp and to arrive for the opening of parliament naked atop a rearing stallion? Yes or no", the electorate votes "yes" then it has to be implemented regardless of what parliament wants.

You're going to ask what colour stallions, and make some irrelevant comment about an MP in Barnet having a hobby plaiting horses' tails, right? I can feel it coming.
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  #17273  
Old 05.02.2019, 10:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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If you asked the people in a referendum "Do you want to pay less taxes all round" and they voted "yes" (d'uh!), the government would then have to implement that regardless of whether they want it or not, because it's the will of the people.

If you would have such a referendum and the government declares before the referendum that it will implement the decision, then yes.



Why else have such a referendum? If you don't want it as a country, then you shouldn't have such a referendum. Isn't that obvious?
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  #17274  
Old 05.02.2019, 10:23
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Why else have such a referendum? If you don't want it as a country, then you shouldn't have such a referendum. Isn't that obvious?
Cameron only did the EU referendum as a vanity project to keep him sweet with the electorate, never once thinking it would go through. Basically ended his career.
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  #17275  
Old 05.02.2019, 10:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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If you make a referendum that says "Do you want all MPs tattooed with a tramp-stamp and to arrive for the opening of parliament naked atop a rearing stallion? Yes or no", the electorate votes "yes" then it has to be implemented regardless of what parliament wants.

No because it would be against the constitution.

Your way of thinking is really too simplistic.
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  #17276  
Old 05.02.2019, 10:26
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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No because it would be against the constitution.

Your way of thinking is really too simplistic.
Well, if you read further up you'll see I had to dumb it down from my original comment because there was some (wilful?) misunderstanding.

Tough crowd.
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  #17277  
Old 05.02.2019, 10:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Well, if you read further up you'll see I had to dumb it down from my original comment because there was some (wilful?) misunderstanding.

Tough crowd.

In that case, we should have an EF referendum about the mandatory use of smiles in ironic or sarcastic posts
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  #17278  
Old 05.02.2019, 10:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The people voted in a referendum & no government will go against that. If they did they won't be in government very long.
I did say ‘ignore the referendum’. That could equally have been used as a trigger to re-examine the relationship with the EU, especially considering the %.

This has been brewing for donkeys. Neither old party wants to be in the EU as a political union, only for trade.

That’s blatantly obvious. So why the dissatisfaction?
Is it just about the power?

Also trying to execute it with approx 2% advantage is a bit idiotic, as we are seeing.
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  #17279  
Old 05.02.2019, 10:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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No because it would be against the constitution.
Unlikely. Britain doesn't have a constitution.
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  #17280  
Old 05.02.2019, 10:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

It's long- so if you don't want to read it, just skip it.

He says it so much better than I ever could, AA Gill:

The late AA Gill on Brexit;
A.A. Gill writing about Brexit in the Times before his death in Dec 2016.
“It was the woman on Question Time that really did it for me.
She was so familiar. There is someone like her in every queue, every coffee shop, outside every school in every parish council in the country. Middle-aged, middle-class, middle-brow, over-made-up, with her National Health face and weatherproof English expression of hurt righteousness, she’s Britannia’s mother-in-law. The camera closed in on her and she shouted: “All I want is my country back. Give me my country back.”
It was a heartfelt cry of real distress and the rest of the audience erupted in sympathetic applause, but I thought: “Back from what? Back from where?”
Wanting the country back is the constant mantra of all the outies. Farage slurs it, Gove insinuates it. Of course I know what they mean. We all know what they mean. They mean back from Johnny Foreigner, back from the brink, back from the future, back-to-back, back to bosky hedges and dry stone walls and country lanes and church bells and warm beer and skittles and football rattles and cheery banter and clogs on cobbles. Back to vicars-and-tarts parties and Carry On fart jokes, back to Elgar and fudge and proper weather and herbaceous borders and cars called Morris. Back to victoria sponge and 22 yards to a wicket and 15 hands to a horse and 3ft to a yard and four fingers in a Kit Kat, back to gooseberries not avocados, back to deference and respect, to make do and mend and smiling bravely and biting your lip and suffering in silence and patronising foreigners with pity.
We all know what “getting our country back” means. It’s snorting a line of the most pernicious and debilitating Little English drug, nostalgia. The warm, crumbly, honey-coloured, collective “yesterday” with its fond belief that everything was better back then, that Britain (England, really) is a worse place now than it was at some foggy point in the past where we achieved peak Blighty. It’s the knowledge that the best of us have been and gone, that nothing we can build will be as lovely as a National Trust Georgian country house, no art will be as good as a Turner, no poem as wonderful as If, no writer a touch on Shakespeare or Dickens, nothing will grow as lovely as a cottage garden, no hero greater than Nelson, no politician better than Churchill, no view more throat-catching than the White Cliffs and that we will never manufacture anything as great as a Rolls-Royce or Flying Scotsman again.
The dream of Brexit isn’t that we might be able to make a brighter, new, energetic tomorrow, it’s a desire to shuffle back to a regret-curdled inward-looking yesterday. In the Brexit fantasy, the best we can hope for is to kick out all the work-all-hours foreigners and become caretakers to our own past in this self-congratulatory island of moaning and pomposity.
And if you think that’s an exaggeration of the Brexit position, then just listen to the language they use: “We are a nation of inventors and entrepreneurs, we want to put the great back in Britain, the great engineers, the great manufacturers.” This is all the expression of a sentimental nostalgia. In the Brexiteer’s mind’s eye is the old Pathé newsreel of Donald Campbell, of John Logie Baird with his television, Barnes Wallis and his bouncing bomb, and Robert Baden-Powell inventing boy scouts in his shed.
All we need, their argument goes, is to be free of the humourless Germans and spoilsport French and all their collective liberalism and reality. There is a concomitant hope that if we manage to back out of Europe, then we’ll get back to the bowler-hatted 1950s and the Commonwealth will hold pageants, fireworks displays and beg to be back in the Queen Empress’s good books again. Then New Zealand will sacrifice a thousand lambs, Ghana will ask if it can go back to being called the Gold Coast and Britain will resume hand-making Land Rovers and top hats and Sheffield plate teapots.
There is a reason that most of the people who want to leave the EU are old while those who want to remain are young: it’s because the young aren’t infected with Bisto nostalgia. They don’t recognise half the stuff I’ve mentioned here. They’ve grown up in the EU and at worst it’s been neutral for them.
The under-thirties want to be part of things, not aloof from them. They’re about being joined-up and counted. I imagine a phrase most outies identify with is “women’s liberation has gone too far”. Everything has gone too far for them, from political correctness — well, that’s gone mad, hasn’t it? — to health and safety and gender-neutral lavatories. Those oldies, they don’t know if they’re coming or going, what with those newfangled mobile phones and kids on Tinder and Grindr. What happened to meeting Miss Joan Hunter Dunn at the tennis club? And don’t get them started on electric hand dryers, or something unrecognised in the bagging area, or Indian call centres , or the impertinent computer asking for a password that has both capitals and little letters and numbers and more than eight digits.
Brexit is the fond belief that Britain is worse now than at some point in the foggy past where we achieved peak Blighty
We listen to the Brexit lot talk about the trade deals they’re going to make with Europe after we leave, and the blithe insouciance that what they’re offering instead of EU membership is a divorce where you can still have sex with your ex. They reckon they can get out of the marriage, keep the house, not pay alimony, take the kids out of school, stop the in-laws going to the doctor, get strict with the visiting rights, but, you know, still get a shag at the weekend and, obviously, see other people on the side.
Really, that’s their best offer? That’s the plan? To swagger into Brussels with Union Jack pants on and say: “ ’Ello luv, you’re looking nice today. Would you like some?”
When the rest of us ask how that’s really going to work, leavers reply, with Terry-Thomas smirks, that “they’re going to still really fancy us, honest, they’re gagging for us. Possibly not Merkel, but the bosses of Mercedes and those French vintners and cheesemakers, they can’t get enough of old John Bull. Of course they’re going to want to go on making the free market with two backs after we’ve got the decree nisi. Makes sense, doesn’t it?”
Have no doubt, this is a divorce. It’s not just business, it’s not going to be all reason and goodwill. Like all divorces, leaving Europe would be ugly and mean and hurtful, and it would lead to a great deal of poisonous xenophobia and racism, all the niggling personal prejudice that dumped, betrayed and thwarted people are prey to. And the racism and prejudice are, of course, weak points for us. The tortuous renegotiation with lawyers and courts will be bitter and vengeful, because divorces always are and, just in passing, this sovereignty thing we’re supposed to want back so badly, like Frodo’s ring, has nothing to do with you or me. We won’t notice it coming back, because we didn’t notice not having it in the first place.
Nine out of 10 economists say ‘remain in the EU’
You won’t wake up on June 24 and think: “Oh my word, my arthritis has gone! My teeth are suddenly whiter! Magically, I seem to know how to make a soufflé and I’m buff with the power of sovereignty.” This is something only politicians care about; it makes not a jot of difference to you or me if the Supreme Court is a bunch of strangely out-of-touch old gits in wigs in Westminster or a load of strangely out-of-touch old gits without wigs in Luxembourg. What matters is that we have as many judges as possible on the side of personal freedom.
Personally, I see nothing about our legislators in the UK that makes me feel I can confidently give them more power. The more checks and balances politicians have, the better for the rest of us. You can’t have too many wise heads and different opinions. If you’re really worried about red tape, by the way, it’s not just a European problem. We’re perfectly capable of coming up with our own rules and regulations and we have no shortage of jobsworths. Red tape may be annoying, but it is also there to protect your and my family from being lied to, poisoned and cheated.
The first “X” I ever put on a voting slip was to say yes to the EU. The first referendum was when I was 20 years old. This one will be in the week of my 62nd birthday. For nearly all my adult life, there hasn’t been a day when I haven’t been pleased and proud to be part of this great collective. If you ask me for my nationality, the truth is I feel more European than anything else. I am part of this culture, this European civilisation. I can walk into any gallery on our continent and completely understand the images and the stories on the walls. These people are my people and they have been for thousands of years. I can read books on subjects from Ancient Greece to Dark Ages Scandinavia, from Renaissance Italy to 19th-century France, and I don’t need the context or the landscape explained to me. The music of Europe, from its scales and its instruments to its rhythms and religion, is my music. The Renaissance, the rococo, the Romantics, the impressionists, gothic, baroque, neoclassicism, realism, expressionism, futurism, fauvism, cubism, dada, surrealism, postmodernism and kitsch were all European movements and none of them belongs to a single nation.
No time for walls: the best of Europe, from its music and food to IM Pei’s pyramid at the Louvre, depends on an easy collision of cultures
There is a reason why the Chinese are making fake Italian handbags and the Italians aren’t making fake Chinese ones. This European culture, without question or argument, is the greatest, most inventive, subtle, profound, beautiful and powerful genius that was ever contrived anywhere by anyone and it belongs to us. Just look at my day job — food. The change in food culture and pleasure has been enormous since we joined the EU, and that’s no coincidence. What we eat, the ingredients, the recipes, may come from around the world, but it is the collective to and fro of European interests, expertise and imagination that has made it all so very appetising and exciting.
The restaurant was a European invention, naturally. The first one in Paris was called The London Bridge.
Culture works and grows through the constant warp and weft of creators, producers, consumers, intellectuals and instinctive lovers. You can’t dictate or legislate for it, you can just make a place that encourages it and you can truncate it. You can make it harder and more grudging, you can put up barriers and you can build walls, but why on earth would you? This collective culture, this golden civilisation grown on this continent over thousands of years, has made everything we have and everything we are, why would you not want to be part of it?
I understand that if we leave we don’t have to hand back our library ticket for European civilisation, but why would we even think about it? In fact, the only ones who would are those old, philistine scared gits. Look at them, too frightened to join in.”
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