The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Fish Paste]

	Quote:
	A large proportion have left since, due to his stance on Brexit. Especially young people.

Both parties are really over the young at their peril.

'Our' Betty is an oldie - but respect:

https://www.facebook.com/JackWDart/v...5314795599703/

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Fish Paste
	Well he pulled the wool over the eyes of the 300,000 new labour party members that joined since he was elected. OK, a good deal were not Brexit related at the beginning, but the last 200,000 will have been over Brexit. Those people have had their subs p1ssed away.

They clearly had no idea about their leader, problem with the young voters they are easily swayed by a man offering sweeties.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	They clearly had no idea about their leader, problem with the young voters they are easily swayed by a man offering sweeties.

As opposed to the older generation seduced by a bus?

[lewton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	They clearly had no idea about their leader, problem with the young voters they are easily swayed by a man offering sweeties.

Are Trump supporters really that young?

[curley]

	Quote:
	seduced by a bus

A few years on EF stops you from being surprised, b...b...bu...but ..... ?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	As opposed to the older generation seduced by a bus?

The older generation are likely to be or have been net tax payers, so they can choose what their money gets spent on. I don't think they see the EU's excess's & wastage as good value for money.
The young just see free money so it's more attractive both from the EU & JC

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	lewton
	Are Trump supporters really that young?

No but Trump want's to make the UK great again, stock markets are higher than when he became president & unemployment is lower than in a very long time. Clearly his success will get him a second term, many people who voted for him will pretend they did not, just like BREXIT voters.

I do believe it was the older generation that fell for the 350m on a bus tbh - the young are generally fit and healthy and healthcare is - well, not for them.

Grayling now saying the EU will be to blame for No Deal - now who lied on a bus in in 100s of other ways, who promised unicorns, holding all the cards, the easiest deal in the world, easy peasy lemon squeezy, no-one in their right mind would consider leaving the Customs Union and Single Market, we will be like Norway and Switzerland, rich and happy, no jobs will be lost, no business will leave and lots of new ones attracted, and on an on and on.....

and on.

Do you actually believe the **** you write? Really? And you do know we have not left yet?

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47...rgJrpGPKDdfLMA

[MusicChick]

Will people ever stop obsessing over the "lies on the bus"? Who do they think voters are...

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	Will people ever stop obsessing over the "lies on the bus"? Who do they think voters are...

Clearly less intelligent than Odile, or not m'lord

[marton]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	I know of a few Labour MPs who are currently being subjected to a sustained deselection campaign because of Brexit, completely despite how well they've represented their constituencies. In my UK hometown, the debate has become exceptionally toxic. This 'deselection' first raised it's head en masse regarding MPs who resigned from Corbyn's government, but now it's also being used regarding Brexit issues. Some very unsavoury people are feeling newly empowered, and are weilding it in a very disturbing fashion.

True but deselection is in the hands of the local committee; very little to do with voters.
The last Labour annual conference voted to make it easier for local party members to deselect sitting MPs, this decision may well turn around to biting the Labour party if it results in new candidates who are not popular with the electorate.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Clearly less intelligent than Odile, or not m'lord

I got some ways to go before becoming Lord.

I say - just, please, don't believe the bus! Under any circumstance! And toothpaste commercials, either! And those antiwrinkle creams suck, too! Well...so they say.

[Fish Paste]

Time for the LibDems to rise up.

Get rid of grandad, get a new Clegg.

Promise Bremain, implement the no benefits for EU immigrants, implement the existing laws on immigration, more money on police and NHS.
They are the key issues.

That’s if May calls an election. Could be a stroke of genius as JC is dead in the water and there is no other opposition to speak of.

[McTAVGE]

https://www.facebook.com/BestForBrit...type=3&theater

	Quote:	MusicChick
	I got some ways to go before becoming Lord. I say - just, please, don't believe the bus! Under any circumstance! And toothpaste commercials, either! And those antiwrinkle creams suck, too! Well...so they say.

But the point is. many, 1000s did believe it- because they have seen how the NHS has been struggling, they have experienced it- themselves, their families-and they are desperate to see the NHS survive. Yes, older people, vulnerable people in the poorest areas of the UK.

And because the lies were not peddled by dodgy second-hand car dealers- but those they should be able to trust, elected Politicians and Ministers- who are expected to behave better. The belittling of any experts are 'project fear'.

But as said, it was also the fraud, the proven foreign interference and illegal funding, the bribes paid to the DUP and now we know, large business investors, and so much more. And with such a tiny minority, and now consequences clear, it is now a totally different proposition.

	Quote:
	But the point is. many, 1000s did believe it- because they have seen how the NHS has been struggling, they have experienced it- themselves, their families-and they are desperate to see the NHS survive. Yes, older people, vulnerable people in the poorest areas of the UK. And because the lies were not peddled by dodgy second-hand car dealers- but those they should be able to trust, elected Politicians and Ministers- who are expected to behave better. The belittling of any experts are 'project fear'. But as said, it was also the fraud, the proven foreign interference and illegal funding, the bribes paid to the DUP and now we know, large business investors, and so much more. And with such a tiny minority, and now consequences clear, it is now a totally different proposition.

You forgot to mention the Russians.

Part of the 'foreign interference and illegal funds'

Here is another red bus:

https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...8reovAuhFnBUVo

And now, Great Britain is really taking back of their borders: NO checks at all on all vehicles coming into UK from the EU. Hurrah. Bring in drugs, arms, illegal everything, any number of illegal immigrants - they are all getting ready. Tons of puppies from puppy farms, threatened species, diseased cattle and sheep, TB, foot and mouth - just what 'the people' voted for. B r a v o

[curley]

	Quote:
	............ And because the lies were not peddled by dodgy second-hand car dealers- but those they should be able to trust, elected Politicians and Ministers- who are expected to behave better.......

The buses were new?

Still at it here, I see?

I've been having an interesting time on a British based political forum where the overwhelming majority of members are pro-Brexit. I don't agree with everybody on every point, but this seems to be the general thrust of opinions over there:

1) Nobody was convinced by a bus. Yes, quite a few people believe that any money saved from leaving the EU could/should be spent on the NHS, but nobody ever believed that the government would ever honour such a commitment.

2) The most important reason, which comes up again and again in post after post, is accountability: people simply don't believe that the EU is accountable to the people. It's phrased in some pretty robust ways (EF is like a kindergarten compared to the forum in question), but that's the crux of the matter.

3) Yes, immigration is a concern. I disagree with almost everything posted on this subject over there, but I do acknowledge that people's concerns were belittled and ignored for decades and the vote for Brexit was almost certainly a consequence of this. Selber schuld. I was warning my colleagues about this nearly twenty years ago.

4) Anti-European sentiment is not a new thing invented by Russian bots to destabilise the west. Many of the members of the forum were adamantly opposed to membership of the Common Market way back when, and haven't been persuaded to think more kindly of its successor either.

5) People are a lot better informed than some members of EF might imagine. Ironically (in the view of some EFers), the pro-Brexit camp seems a lot more aware of events on the Continent than many of the Remain camp. There are a few misconceptions flying around, naturally, but not as many as some of you might imagine. I've been quite impressed, to be honest, and have learnt a lot.

6) Events over the last two years have done nothing to persuade people that they did the wrong thing voting for Brexit. Indeed, there are one or two people in the group who have switched from Remain to Leave after seeing how things have gone.

7) I can live without some of the World War II imagery and rhetoric, but that's hardly a new thing either. I remember once invoking the Dunkirk spirit when describing what happened when my train was delayed. It's what we Brits do...

And my current position? I still support Brexit (those documents, once read, can never be unread), still doubt it'll actually happen, but deeply regret the way the British government has handled the whole show whatever happens. I'll probably never vote again, unless I'm invited to vote in a referendum for Scottish independence or the abolition of the monarchy, in which case I'm all for it!